Addressing Looted 9 and 10 armors

Addressing Looted 9 and 10 armors
  • Thread starter Thread starter rason
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This idea/suggestion is Open. You can respond to ask questions or discuss the idea and either vote it up or down if you believe it should or should not be implemented, respectively. Popular suggestions and ideas will be considered by the development team to become reality in-game.

rason

Proposal
Proposed standard:

Offer voluntary buyback on the existing parts that would become pre-nerfs. To our understanding, there are not very many of them, handling them via ticket to CSR would be the simplest way to address them. Have players submit a ticket asking for the part buyback in exchange for a new part of equal rarity using the new standard. Encourage people to do this with the knowledge that in the near future, 6-12 months, they will be adjusted on log in to a set value of 5,000 or 4,000 depending on a0 or a9 status to encourage them to participate without overly punishing people that are not active during that time. People that particpate in the buyback program should also be rewarded with a one time token payout, quantity decided by Staff.

Any a0 mass less than 4637 raw or 4312.4 RE is adjusted to these values. Exception: Any a0 less than 1054 mass raw or 980 mass post is recalculated based on what it's roll would have been under the revised bell curve. This number is chosen because that was the previous 4 standard deviation.

Any a9 mass less than 3673 raw or 3452.6 post is adjusted to these values. Exception: Any a9 less than 822 mass raw or 772.6 mass post is recalculated based on how that roll would have been under the revised bell curve. This number is chosen because that was the previous 4 standard deviation.

Address swaps for mass on a case by case CSR basis if this standard doesn't suffice for individual cases. This could include swapping to a different tier part to preserve the mass, rather than the armor. As a guideline, prefer the CSR swap not exceed 4.4 deviations from standard for the swapped level.
Justification
In the likely event that a9s and a0s have their loot tables adjusted, the top priority in the aftermath would be addressing the existing pre nerfs in the fairest way possible. Something that both ensures we are not kicking the ladder behind anyone, but also compensating the owners of existing parts in the best way possible.
Motivation
a9s and a0s dropping mass that is lower than any other armor means all other armors are invalidated, creating an alpha part with no room for choice.
This was the best I could piece together from the discussion in space senate, but should still be flexible if new ideas arise. Just important we are working towards a solution.
 
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Wanted to chime in first and say that the Development Team is aware of and actively evaluating the somewhat anomalous distribution of Armor 9’s and 10’s. We are looking to the Community to share their opinions and ideas on the matter before making a final decision. In the event that we adjust the distribution ranges to be more similar to their lesser counterparts, we are interested in how best to address the existing looted pieces as well. Thank you and please keep the discussion constructive. -Fuego
 
I''m not fussed if it happens or not for the handful that get looted.

I'm not even adverse to their being pre-nerf ones out there if things are changed.

however kif things are and devs/community decide that there should be retrospective changes to the handful in existence then I agree with what Rason has put in regards to values.
 
I'm honestly fine either way as well. Rason knows the space stuff well and I feel like his suggestions are fair.
 
I'm on the fence as to if I actually care if this get changed. That said if it is changed what will the buy back program look like? No offence to the CSRs as I know they have vast game knowledge and spend their time helping people. I just question how they will know what to give people in exchange for their nerfed part? I also wonder if the change to the loot table will affect the drop rate of usable 8-10k mass lvl 10 armors.
 
How do you quantify a buyback? You don't know which part in an RE'd had the mass, that's not logged anywhere ten parts deleted 1 new part created. What if someone had got real lucky and got one of the models that wouldn't normally roll mass, or has a lower chance to roll good mass?

1054 mass on a Mon Cal Advanced Weave would be roughly 4 standard deviations, but if you had some insane pull and got the mass on a Mandal Motors Enhanced Weave, that's closer to 5 deviations. So you're just getting boned by having your plate bumped up to something worse than it would have been if the fix had been done from the beginning.

The better option is to fix the issue so they can't roll negative mass first, and then work on how to correct existing plates, though I think you're better off just leaving them. They are not so game breaking that a few existing is the end of the world.
 
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Tyrrell said:
How do you quantify a buyback? You don't know which part in an RE'd had the mass, that's not logged anywhere ten parts deleted 1 new part created. What if someone had got real lucky and got one of the models that wouldn't normally roll mass, or has a lower chance to roll good mass?

1054 mass on a Mon Cal Advanced Weave would be roughly 4 standard deviations, but if you had some insane pull and got the mass on a Mandal Motors Enhanced Weave, that's closer to 5 deviations. So you're just getting boned by having your plate bumped up to something worse than it would have been if the fix had been done from the beginning.

The better option is to fix the issue so they can't roll negative mass first, and then work on how to correct existing plates, though I think you're better off just leaving them. They are not so game breaking that a few existing is the end of the world.
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I'm glad we are fixing this. The main reason is because of perception. We fight perceptions of new players who think they can't compete at space pvp because the vet pilots have all the best gear and you need the best gear to win. Getting rid of such a drastic inconsistency with armor masses is a move in the right direction in improving the perception of 'haves' vs 'have nots'. I would have agreed that most of the armor plates that dropped probably wouldn't have been massively game breaking, but then we saw the recent 900 mass A9.

I can't see how leaving pre nerf armors in the game is good. Its worse than leaving the system as is where we all at least have the hope of landing one of these ourselves. Leaving a few with them is the worst type of kicking the ladder out from those behind you.

The most credible thing about this is the guy who wrote this PV and started this topic of conversation on discord, Rason, has an armor slab that would get nerfed from this change. It is for the good of the space community even though it sucks for a few individuals. I'm totally up for some fair compensation to the those who this affects. Other groups on this server got the nerf with no compensation.
 
Maxal said:
I'm glad we are fixing this. The main reason is because of perception. We fight perceptions of new players who think they can't compete at space pvp because the vet pilots have all the best gear and you need the best gear to win. Getting rid of such a drastic inconsistency with armor masses is a move in the right direction in improving the perception of 'haves' vs 'have nots'. I would have agreed that most of the armor plates that dropped probably wouldn't have been massively game breaking, but then we saw the recent 900 mass A9.

I can't see how leaving pre nerf armors in the game is good. Its worse than leaving the system as is where we all at least have the hope of landing one of these ourselves. Leaving a few with them is the worst type of kicking the ladder out from those behind you.

The most credible thing about this is the guy who wrote this PV and started this topic of conversation on discord, Rason, has an armor slab that would get nerfed from this change. It is for the good of the space community even though it sucks for a few individuals. I'm totally up for some fair compensation to the those who this affects. Other groups on this server got the nerf with no compensation.
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I don't think Rason has a slab that would be affected I might be wrong though. I'll be honest I do have a slab that will get nerfed. I'm not that happy about the nerf but I could be ok with it if I got a plate that's usable to me. I spent a long time and countless tokens making it and would hate to see all that work go down the drain. The Proposed 4xxx mass 10 plate is useless for me because I can't run it in my PvP ship. I don't care what's in my PVE setup because it doesn't take much at all to do pve and isn't competitive. Another question about the exchange program if I exchange my 16xx mass A0 that's Re'ed with a great hitpoint do I just get a mass or do I also get a hitpoint that matches? Will I still be without a armor plate for my pvp setup until I loot a hitpoint?
 
I’d like someone that looks at numbers more than me, I can pull the numbers, but I question myself sometimes in the actual numbers

I have some ideas, but I ca also see issues with this as well.

What is the 4th deviation on 8, 7, 6, 5?

I can see an issue with moving 9/10 too high where you just have the same issue, put just pushing the issue down and then making 9/10 too heavy to realistically use.

Kinda feel like if you can get 1-2k mass 8s at 2.3k armor or 7s at 1-2k and 1800 armor.. then what’s the point of a 8k mass 10 or 9? And then again what’s the point of a 6 or 5 at that point?

Again I don’t know the numbers. I could be off. But there’s absolutely stupid 8s and I have a stupid 7.

I think if you make this change all armor should be looked at then.
Purely an example and a thought.
4th deviation
1s 500
2s 750
3s 1000
4s 1250
5s 2000
6s 2250
7s 3000
8s 3500
9s 4000
10s 4500

The above numbers have jumps in them on purpose, big jump in armor from 4 to 5 making them more of a choice, and not much armor difference from 5 to 6, then a massive armor jump from 6 to 7 should equal more mass and it just doesn’t right now. I think the numbers above add a layer of more choice to all armor levels. Which is what the point of this PV is.

Pre-nerf solution..

Anyone that gets nerfed at all gets 25k tokens and move on with our life. All armors below these numbers just get nerfed to that number.

If you look at charts, 7s are fairly out of wack, and same with 8s. 6s are trash, and 4s are in no mans land. (Based squarely on odds of stats)

I really feel like just changing 10 and 9s don’t do much. Because one there’s not that many of them in the first place. Second, the issue with 9/10 will become a 8/7 problem without guardrails further down in lower tiers.

I am in favor of change. But until it’s ironed out, and someone can prove to me the issues won’t continue but in a different tier level, I’m going to hold off voting. A sub 1k mass 2400 armor a8 shouldn’t exist, same as a sub 1k a9/10. Or a 1200 mass 1800 armor a7, when the same 4th deviation on mass for a a6/5/4 exists. Even if the 3rd deviation is lower. Still doesn’t make it okay, or balanced.

It’s great we have dev eyes on balancing 9/10, but balancing just this shifts the unbalance to a different unbalance. If 9/10 is all we are going to touch, imo just leave it alone. Roll your tokens on 9/10s.

To add on further - we always talk about dev time, and there are other parts that many of us have said are unbalanced, politically speaking, Id add an amendment to this, and filibuster this bill. - I wouldnt want devs to go in and change and modify parts over and over again, Id rather we all come to a census of these other parts along with this and do one sweeping change. Add a few parts to the convoy loot table, and take out some of the junk, EXAMPLE - c8 CE "reward" 1525-1575 ish, up the s8 reward 150ish points - add a dual stat .35 RR/18 EPS w6 item, move the w9 4th deviation min/max up 200 points, to separate a 10-15k mass jump from w8 to w0, along with a proposed sweeping armor change, introduce the pvp/pve token change PV that had massive support, add a group escort duty/destroy duty in AoA lounge (also a massive supported PV) , allow a time trials reset at 1/3rd or 1/4th the original payouts, and you have one massive space revamp patch, slap a label on it, AI image ad on the facebook page/ website/ reddit, market the shit out of it. If you build it, they will come.
 
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After speaking with Rason in space chat, and making my own chart of stats, and talking it out after posting it, and the 3/3.5 deviations don’t change much as discussed, and if that’s how it’s implemented then you have my vote.

I still believe we push forward with other changes as I talked about and release it all at once. I hope the community can come together on some of those in an all out huge space expansion/ revamp.

Would still like there to be a not over payment on pre-nerfs. But a little somthing a badge, some tokens. I’m not opposed to a trade in.. might be hard to police though. Don’t know how the hell that would work. Practically, reasonably, or fairly. But not opposed. But I’d vote if it was possible , a mass and hit points of same rarity (deviation) should be given back at any tier level. If Zoso wants a a5 mass and a8 HP. Or what ever the case is.

Upvote.
 
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