Disallow more than 1 overt character in space on same account

Disallow more than 1 overt character in space on same account
This idea/suggestion is Open. You can respond to ask questions or discuss the idea and either vote it up or down if you believe it should or should not be implemented, respectively. Popular suggestions and ideas will be considered by the development team to become reality in-game.

Grunanca

Proposal
Only one character per account should be able to be overt/start going overt in space at the same time EDIT: and when killed while overt an account global timer of 2 min should be applied before you can start going overt again in space from the time you were killed.
Justification
One player being able to completely block other another player from winning the spacebattle through playing on several characters is no better than having several accounts, which is not legal in the game. It also pushes new players out of participating, because they dont have several PvP capable characters to compete with, so even if they manage to get a lucky kill, they gain nothing from it in the battle. Also not all players have the space or money to set up a dual screen setup to "just do the same". Even if you do the same, you end up in a situation where people can just zerg back with the same 2 characters all the time, completely blocking the ability for the battle to end in anything but a draw, because there is no time to shoot at the capital ships. This even if one player consistently wins every single engagement. PvP content where an equal number of players cannot finish it without a winner is not good content and mulitboxing takes away the one thing you get in space for a win - the time to hold the area. Note I dont care about this change for a POB, where the characters will both be sent back to station when dying, its only 2 pilots that is the problem.
Motivation
As it is right now, spacebattles are in some timezones dominated by players that have 2 characters in space on the same account while overt. Often with one character sitting around 2km away from the battle and the other character actually participating. This means if you go into PvP with 1 character, if you win, you are a few seconds from the player flying in with the other character, with you often having an empty capacitor and maybe damaged shield/armour. While you are fighting that battle, the ship you just killed is busy overloading, going overt and hypering to the closest point again. So if you manage to defeat ship number 2, you are again seconds from the first ship being back in battle. As there is no penalty for dying in space, this effectively means that you cannot as a player playing one character get the normal few minutes you get after defeating another player at a spacebattle to actually attack the ship. This being very different from ground, where mulitboxing means double the decay if you get killed.
As it is right now, spacebattles are in some timezones dominated by players that have 2 characters in space on the same account while overt. Often with one character sitting around 2km away from the battle and the other character actually participating. This means if you go into PvP with 1 character, if you win, you are a few seconds from the player flying in with the other character, with you often having an empty capacitor and maybe damaged shield/armour. While you are fighting that battle, the ship you just killed is busy overloading, going overt and hypering to the closest point again. So if you manage to defeat ship number 2, you are again seconds from the first ship being back in battle. As there is no penalty for dying in space, this effectively means that you cannot as a player playing one character get the normal few minutes you get after defeating another player at a spacebattle to actually attack the ship. This being very different from ground, where mulitboxing means double the decay if you get killed.
 
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Even if you kill “one” person, they can overload and fly right back within a minute or two.

I dont see this fixing anything other than just putting more restrictions on players.
 
I agree with this. Aside from being 2 on 1, when someone gets their friends doing the same thing, it them becomes 4 on 1. Anyone can see the snowball effect happening here. This is also NOT how the game was intended to be played.

I am not sure if have 2 overt pilots in space is the problem or if it is dual boxing that is the problem.

Some people bring their alt as a gunner in a POB to get that char some space XP. I don't have a problem with that. But abusing dual boxing is wrong. Using it to gain an unfair advantage over other players is wrong.

If you can't win a fight 1 on 1 find something else to do.

Restricting space to one overt character at a time per account seems reasonable.
 
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ksully09 said:
Even if you kill “one” person, they can overload and fly right back within a minute or two.

I dont see this fixing anything other than just putting more restrictions on players.
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A minute or 2 means enough time to kill 50% of the systems on a capital ship. That is very different from 5-10 seconds. It is the difference between being able to win the battle by killing a player and being bugged down in a zerg fest until you lose once or twice and the multiboxer can finish your capital ship.
 
Grunanca said:
A minute or 2 means enough time to kill 50% of the systems on a capital ship. That is very different from 5-10 seconds. It is the difference between being able to win the battle by killing a player and being bugged down in a zerg fest until you lose once or twice and the multiboxer can finish your capital ship.
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You’re not killing half a capitol ship in 60-120 seconds. I understand what you’re saying, but someone could just hit the overt button with their other toon sitting there and they are back on you in the overt timer in 15/30 seconds.

And furthermore if we only have two people at a space battle, the the problem is with space battles.

And to Sago’s point.. no one is dual boxing and fighting you with two different ships at a time…

This isn’t going to fix or do anything at all. Other than restrict gameplay.
 
ksully09 said:
You’re not killing half a capitol ship in 60-120 seconds. I understand what you’re saying, but someone could just hit the overt button with their other toon sitting there and they are back on you in the overt timer in 15/30 seconds.

And furthermore if we only have two people at a space battle, the the problem is with space battles.

And to Sago’s point.. no one is dual boxing and fighting you with two different ships at a time…

This isn’t going to fix or do anything at all. Other than restrict gameplay.
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Ill happily make a video of it for you. Takes just under 3 minutes in my x-wing i usually use to kill it uninterrupted.
The timer to go overt is 40+15 seconds. Thats almost a minute or 2 full capacitors compared to going from 0-10% cap right into another fight.

Saying it wont fix anything at all simply isnt right. I had a 1 v 1 today, we ended up having 3 fights total of which i won 2, with me killing the capital ship.

Compared to my fight vs a multiboxer where we spent 25 minutes fighting over it. I started out getting kills, then he got a ship to counted mine on one account. I had to land to swap to a-wing, again he swapped ships on his original character to counter the a-wing. So basically i was outclassed in ships and he had an extra life whenever i got a kill in. Despite me having a really good start of the battle, he ended up winning when he had both characters in ships that were hard counted to mine. If i was to land and swap again, he would finish the capital ship before i was back.

It might not affect you, but no matter how you spin it, it affects others. It makes it so running 2 characters in the same system overt gives you a sure win with an extra life whenever you win.

Also If you are worried about the alt starting the timer as soon as the other character dies, simply add a 1-2 minute timer on all characters where they cant go overt after one is killed. That way you can ensure there is plenty of time to finish the capital ship of you win twice.
 
Grunanca said:
Ill happily make a video of it for you. Takes just under 3 minutes in my x-wing i usually use to kill it uninterrupted.
The timer to go overt is 40+15 seconds. Thats almost a minute or 2 full capacitors compared to going from 0-10% cap right into another fight.

Saying it wont fix anything at all simply isnt right. I had a 1 v 1 today, we ended up having 3 fights total of which i won 2, with me killing the capital ship.

Compared to my fight vs a multiboxer where we spent 25 minutes fighting over it. I started out getting kills, then he got a ship to counted mine on one account. I had to land to swap to a-wing, again he swapped ships on his original character to counter the a-wing. So basically i was outclassed in ships and he had an extra life whenever i got a kill in. Despite me having a really good start of the battle, he ended up winning when he had both characters in ships that were hard counted to mine. If i was to land and swap again, he would finish the capital ship before i was back.

It might not affect you, but no matter how you spin it, it affects others. It makes it so running 2 characters in the same system overt gives you a sure win with an extra life whenever you win.

Also If you are worried about the alt starting the timer as soon as the other character dies, simply add a 1-2 minute timer on all characters where they cant go overt after one is killed. That way you can ensure there is plenty of time to finish the capital ship of you win twice.
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I’m not arguing with you, I’m saying you said you could down that quickly, if you can kuddos. It took several minutes with a group of 5 or 6 of us. Again kuddos.

Overt timer is 15/ then you can fly in while it finishes 15 seconds later.

Not allowing two overts at the same time is simply adding an inconvenience. Again if someone has two toons ready, you’re going to get hit by the other very very shortly after. A quick alt tab overt button and they are flying right at you in 15 seconds.

You’re also not going to sit there and attack the capital ship while they are coming, your shunting and preparing.

It’s shit method to play, but removing it just restricts gameplay, like I said.

Once again I don’t see the point. Maybe the devs will. Good luck with your PV
 
Also slippery slope. Ground can have a full medic macro dual boxer pveing or pvp , you’re nerfing space and essentially buffing ground.

If you have a problem with this, then it should be dual boxing in general, not just space.

The way ground can do it is, you’re actually fighting two player toons at once. Space itself one at a time, at least.
 
ksully09 said:
I’m not arguing with you, I’m saying you said you could down that quickly, if you can kuddos. It took several minutes with a group of 5 or 6 of us. Again kuddos.

Overt timer is 15/ then you can fly in while it finishes 15 seconds later.

Not allowing two overts at the same time is simply adding an inconvenience. Again if someone has two toons ready, you’re going to get hit by the other very very shortly after. A quick alt tab overt button and they are flying right at you in 15 seconds.

You’re also not going to sit there and attack the capital ship while they are coming, your shunting and preparing.

It’s shit method to play, but removing it just restricts gameplay, like I said.

Once again I don’t see the point. Maybe the devs will. Good luck with your PV
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Well, I see your point with the time. I have added a 2 min global cooldown for starting the overt timer to the proposal based on it. Thanks for the input, even if you dont agree with the idea, it is an important perspective:)

Regarding your other comment about the ground game. I dont ground PvP, so I have no opinion on multiboxing there other than using more characters means losing equipment faster. That doesnt exist in space, so I see it as completely different gamemodes, that have completely different rewards/penalties. I just know multiboxing makes space PvP worse. Seeing them as the same means having decay on ground might as well be a slippery slope for space.

For PvE I dont want to interrupt the gameplay as it has little effect on other players, so if you want to go dual boxing in a ship, have fun.
 
Good point. What is needed is a Medical/Repair ship you can fly around and "heal" (repair) other ships. :)
 
Restricting space to one overt player per account at a time is not hurting anyone except the people that want to dual box in space.

This just levels the playing field instead of having one player have a ship outside of the battle ready to go if needed. The quick or at least shortened response time is a tactical advantage.

We could just say "everyone" dual box ..... but is that the road we 'really" want to go down??
 
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Tyr said:
Good point. What is needed is a Medical/Repair ship you can fly around and "heal" (repair) other ships. :)
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That and a command with a "taunt" function and you got yourself a proper heal/tank/damage triangle which would open up "space dungeons"!
 
SagoMactow said:
Restricting space to one overt player per account at a time is not hurting anyone except the people that want to dual box in space.

This just levels the playing field instead of having one player have a ship outside of the battle ready to go if needed. The quick or at least shortened response time is a tactical advantage.

We could just say "everyone" dual box ..... but is that the road we 'really" want to go down??
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Everyone including ground dual boxes lol.

If this is your take, then dual boxing in general needs to be banned. Ground too.

There’s a bigger advantage on the ground , than in space.

I don’t get it.
 
ksully09 said:
Everyone including ground dual boxes lol.

If this is your take, then dual boxing in general needs to be banned. Ground too.

There’s a bigger advantage on the ground , than in space.

I don’t get it.
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You're suggesting to use the nuclear option of banning "all" dual boxing is over kill and will also impact the ground game.

But since you brought it up, maybe it needs to be. I do not really have an opinion regarding dual boxing during ground content at all right now and this is about space anyways, not ground content.

My question to you would be, why are you so heavily in favor of some people finding a way to play the game in a manner in which it was not intended? People trying to gain an advantage over someone?

By making it so an account can only have one "overt" character in space in only hurting the people that dual box in space. Only the people that want an unfair advantage just to "win".
 
SagoMactow said:
You're suggesting to use the nuclear option of banning "all" dual boxing is over kill and will also impact the ground game.

But since you brought it up, maybe it needs to be. I do not really have an opinion regarding dual boxing during ground content at all right now and this is about space anyways, not ground content.

My question to you would be, why are you so heavily in favor of some people finding a way to play the game in a manner in which it was not intended? People trying to gain an advantage over someone?

By making it so an account can only have one "overt" character in space in only hurting the people that dual box in space. Only the people that want an unfair advantage just to "win".
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How do they have an advantage to win? It’s all 1 on 1 still?? And banning this is only saving a few seconds.

Also you’ve said they are playing the game not in the way it was intended?

How?

Literally parking a free target that anyone can kill,

This is not an exploit at all, what so ever.

You’re argument was dual boxing in general giving unfairness, that’s why I brought up ground.
 
Personally don't think it makes much difference if it's 1 account v 1 account.

End of the day imps are gonna win 90% of those due to eweps even if they haven't touched the frigate prior to vuln.

Also if you know these tactics why not hunt the afk one first then go after the live one.

I've done that dozens of times and takes both out the fight at the same time.


Not saying something doesn't need done I personally despise dual boxing altogether ground and space. (I of course have done it heck doing it now grinding a pet whilst I space on alt) still hate it as a mechanic though.
 
ksully09 said:
How do they have an advantage to win? It’s all 1 on 1 still?? And banning this is only saving a few seconds.

Also you’ve said they are playing the game not in the way it was intended?

How?

Literally parking a free target that anyone can kill,

This is not an exploit at all, what so ever.

You’re argument was dual boxing in general giving unfairness, that’s why I brought up ground.
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You know Letts, Grun has MORE than adequately explained that having another fighter ready to jump into the fight reduces the amount of time a player has to recover.

You just refuse to admit it. Why is that? Are you dual boxing too?
 
SagoMactow said:
You know Letts, Grun has MORE than adequately explained that having another fighter ready to jump into the fight reduces the amount of time a player has to recover.

You just refuse to admit it. Why is that? Are you dual boxing too?
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I’m not dual boxing at all. I don’t like dual boxing period.

But I also don’t like restricting gameplay just because someone else is playing the game a different way.

TBH there’s only like one dude I know doing this. Parking a free target outside the SB overt.

Because that’s what this is.

And I’ve explained to you not allowing it only saves a few seconds.

Smogs and myself already said, go kill the parked overt.

It’s not an exploit.

And adding a 2 minute CD to overt effects EVERYTHING and EVERYONE that is not even doing this.

It’s be cool to just find a different solution.

Also when’s the last time you did content? Curious.
 
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smogs said:
Personally don't think it makes much difference if it's 1 account v 1 account.

End of the day imps are gonna win 90% of those due to eweps even if they haven't touched the frigate prior to vuln.

Also if you know these tactics why not hunt the afk one first then go after the live one.

I've done that dozens of times and takes both out the fight at the same time.


Not saying something doesn't need done I personally despise dual boxing altogether ground and space. (I of course have done it heck doing it now grinding a pet whilst I space on alt) still hate it as a mechanic though.
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Eweps is more pve related and has another suggestion in here, so that is not so relevant for this discussion.

I do hunt down the afk alt, the problem is it does not really solve space battles problem at all.

First you need to find the alt, which is usually parked behind/above/below the battle. So trying to find the alt in a 9x9km grid behind the battle usually leads the active character to see you and come at you before you reach the alt.

Second if you do kill the alt, he can then immediately restart overloads and set hyperpoint to closest near the battle, while preparing with the character at the battle that has now been warned. So even if you manage to kill that character too, you got the character prepping up again while the alt moves a few km to once again be in battle. This leads to you never getting enough time to recharge cap and hit the capital ship for any serious damage again.

Third, if you are hunting alt around the spacebattle, you get no closer to winning the battle. So we are back to my point in the suggestion about dual boxing making it impossible to win the spacebattle regardless of what you do. So you get get 350 space prestige, and maybe 25 tokens instead of potentially 6k prestige and 100 tokens. Even if you multibox yourself, you end up in a tie where an equal number of players on each side cannot win the pvp content. Making this even worse is that at least 2 imps have alts that do not ever show up on the war Intel pad when overt, so even trying to get an overview of how much time you might have won is impossible as only spamming p and z is the sure way to see them coming in the last few seconds.
 
Trying to hunt down the "parked" second player is like looking for a needle in a haystack.,

But now you are putting the onus on the players that are just trying to do the space battle the way it is designed to be played.

And I do find that whenever someone finds a loop hole to gain an advantage they are, in fact, exploiting. To say otherwise is saying the game designers designed it specifically to use dual box.

Also, the Devs, in Live and here on R3 have made changes over the years to make the game more balanced. even, and fair. Why and how is this any different?
 
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