Reduce the Effectiveness of Self Heals for Non Healer Specs

Reduce the Effectiveness of Self Heals for Non Healer Specs
  • Thread starter Thread starter Doogla
  • Start date Start date
  • Open Combat Medic 
This idea/suggestion is Open. You can respond to ask questions or discuss the idea and either vote it up or down if you believe it should or should not be implemented, respectively. Popular suggestions and ideas will be considered by the development team to become reality in-game.

Doogla

Proposal
Suggestion 1: Put the healing abilities higher up on the trees so you have to sacrifice more skill points to obtain them
OR
Suggestion 2: Make the heals like Bacta Toss drain more mind until you climb higher up the tree
Justification
I believe this will open up for more viable builds in PVP instead of feeling the obligation to pick these trees to compete
Motivation
1 vs 1s can sometimes go on infinitely if both parties have the healing abilities. While this is understandable for Combat Medic or Doctor mains, I don't believe that just a few points in a base class like medic should give access to such powerful heals. Also people who main Doctor or Combat Medic are less needed because everyone has powerful self heals, which I believe goes against the player community spirit of the game.
It seems like there's a pretty strong meta for including just a few points of Medic in your build to give yourself extra heals. Most of the PVPers seem to do this, and I feel like perhaps there's really no big downside to doing it. I'm curious what other people think.
 
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It seems like that would screw up a lot of PvE builds. This servers content is tuned to be harder than live was, so PvE builds often dip into heals, especially solo builds.
 
goalie said:
It seems like that would screw up a lot of PvE builds. This servers content is tuned to be harder than live was, so PvE builds often dip into heals, especially solo builds.
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I feel that if there’s a skill tree that you’re shooting yourself in the foot by not taking in both PvP AND PVE, then that tree may need some balancing.
 
Khardacca said:
Game should never be balanced around 1v1s. Hard no from me.
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I don’t think this would be the intention. Do you consider every player having multiple strong self heals (on top of stims) as being balanced around group play? It doesn’t seem balanced around anything but solo play to me.
 
There is enough group content that requires a dedicated healer. This includes PvP and PvE in its current state.
This will mess up a ton of PvE content people do without parties which on a server where you cant always find a party for each activity is detrimental.
And there is a downside to this - You have to dedicate a good bunch of skillpoints to it.
Absolute no from me. The self heal spam really only gets annoying in 1v1 duels - this is not what the game should be balanced around.
 
I DO actually believe something needs to happen to heals that aren't on full healer spec's because they're honestly way too powerful and I would prefer to see more healers becoming viable in group settings insted of just 1 per.


The reasons suggested aren't really the main problem nor are good fixes
 
Nidums said:
I DO actually believe something needs to happen to heals that aren't on full healer spec's because they're honestly way too powerful and I would prefer to see more healers becoming viable in group settings insted of just 1 per.


The reasons suggested aren't really the main problem nor are good fixes
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I realize a lot of people don’t PvP so I’m all ears for better fixes.
 
Nidums said:
I DO actually believe something needs to happen to heals that aren't on full healer spec's because they're honestly way too powerful and I would prefer to see more healers becoming viable in group settings insted of just 1 per.


The reasons suggested aren't really the main problem nor are good fixes
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Well what is a full healer spec?
Do we now force everyone who wants to heal into "FULL" healers? Meaning no dps class aka MCM / MDoc?
Because i dont think thats a good solution either.

I think a better solution than nerfing the "power" of heals in this case is maybe to rethink how long someone can sustain healing instead.
As in maybe make heals more expensive to use - but reduce that cost more towards the "full" healer specs.
So everyone technically can sustain by themselves still for a bit - But you run faster into needing external help
 
The options are typically go x2xx Medic or 4xxx Doc or CM. Where are you going to move the healing skills? Do you need to be master to heal people? Or is the actual ask to reduce the power of heals?

Moving skills doesn’t make them less needed it just limits builds even more.

This is a no for me.
 
Keep heals as is, make them more mind expensive, stick heal cost reduction in x444 and a big one in master. Cap heal cost reduction so that going mDoc and MCM doesn’t stack and gives you free healing. Everybody can keep healing but will need to be more strategic about it, essentially shortening PvP fights and full heal builds won’t be affected. This could still be somewhat an issue for solo PvE players, but if getting 4xxx in an advanced heal profession and using stims and food on top of that still doesn’t let you kill xyz with it cause you run out of mind, can we just accept the fact this is an MMORPG and not all content aside from heroics should be soloed.
 
Absolutely not, this game is about choice, often times i play weird hours and i like my healing, it allows me to solo what i can with out a group, if the issue is pvp then make healing reduction debuffs actually matter and used skillfully to burst people down. There should be counter play not a redisign if this is indeed a problem but from what i seen in this recent tournement is that healing does not save you if its a 1v1 problem then thats something that can be adressed by other means.
 
Veizyr said:
Keep heals as is, make them more mind expensive, stick heal cost reduction in x444 and a big one in master. Cap heal cost reduction so that going mDoc and MCM doesn’t stack and gives you free healing. Everybody can keep healing but will need to be more strategic about it, essentially shortening PvP fights and full heal builds won’t be affected. This could still be somewhat an issue for solo PvE players, but if getting 4xxx in an advanced heal profession and using stims and food on top of that still doesn’t let you kill xyz with it cause you run out of mind, can we just accept the fact this is an MMORPG and not all content aside from heroics should be soloed.
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It seems like the main issue everyone has with this is that it would make soloing things in the MMO harder, which I don’t see a problem with. This game has always been about needing to call on other players and professions.

I like the idea of making the heals take more mind and putting the mind reduction stuff towards the top of the tree. That way people who choose to take it can still supplement with the extra heals but the mind toll will be too much eventually.

I also for some reason thought Bacta toss was in CM but it’s actually only 2 skill boxes up in regular Medic which makes it even easier to get than I originally posted. So for 20 skill points you can get 2 self heals.

What would you spend those points on otherwise that would boost your character’s power anywhere near what 2 self heals does? It seems like a no brainer to take that on EVERY combat spec. That’s not more choice because anyone that wants to be viable feels like they need to take those skills.
 
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Doogla said:
It seems like the main issue everyone has with this is that it would make soloing things in the MMO harder, which I don’t see a problem with. This game has always been about needing to call on other players and professions.
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The problem with this is simple.
This is a server with less than 1000 concurrent online. Split into several professions which a good bunch of are not even combat professions - Of which most are not healers - Across several time zones - Chasing different goals and having different life schedules and playtimes.
We do not have the population for a change which will force people to rely on a external healer for a large amount of content.

Doogla said:
I also for some reason thought Bacta toss was in CM but it’s actually only 2 skill boxes up in regular Medic which makes it even easier to get than I originally posted. So for 24 skill points you can get 2 self heals.
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How is someone who is going for only combat medic and does not go for the doctor tree gonna heal until novice cm if you remove or make it harder to get?
Also the healing to mind ratio of this ability at stage one is a joke for endgame.
 
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Jylin said:
The problem with this is simple.
This is a server with less than 1000 concurrent online. Split into several professions which a good bunch of are not even combat professions - Of which most are not healers - Across several time zones - Chasing different goals and having different life schedules and playtimes.
We do not have the population for a change which will force people to rely on a external healer for a large amount of content.
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I simply disagree. I've played at all times. This server is packed day and night because it's got Americans and Europeans. Granted, this is a somewhat new development so those of you who were used to playing with 200 people before the server exploded may be set in your ways, but you guys are probably already done with most of the content. Just try interacting with people
 
Doogla said:
I simply disagree. I've played at all times. This server is packed day and night because it's got Americans and Europeans. Granted, this is a somewhat new development so those of you who were used to playing with 200 people before the server exploded may be set in your ways, but you guys are probably already done with most of the content. Just try interacting with people
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You can disagree doesn't make it true there are times I have played where there are no groups running. "Just try interacting with people" how about you just end fights divisively seems like a skill issue.
Doogla said:
It seems like the main issue everyone has with this is that it would make soloing things in the MMO harder, which I don’t see a problem with. This game has always been about needing to call on other players and professions.

I like the idea of making the heals take more mind and putting the mind reduction stuff towards the top of the tree. That way people who choose to take it can still supplement with the extra heals but the mind toll will be too much eventually.

I also for some reason thought Bacta toss was in CM but it’s actually only 2 skill boxes up in regular Medic which makes it even easier to get than I originally posted. So for 20 skill points you can get 2 self heals.

What would you spend those points on otherwise that would boost your character’s power anywhere near what 2 self heals does? It seems like a no brainer to take that on EVERY combat spec. That’s not more choice because anyone that wants to be viable feels like they need to take those skills.
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Again this your opinion and prescriptive assumption you are trying to Assert how the game should be played without Acknowledging player agency or design flexibility. I use to play Solo quiet often in Live and yes there was group content at endgame you could freely progress and advance Solo and occasional grouping. Too the Original Point its not going to solve anything you shift around the heal skills then the builds will get even less diverse because then you will just have everyone going full MCM instead 4xxx or 4xx4 with Doom spam and heals. I also have no idea if you even PvP or pay attention but there are some very high damage builds out there that will Burst anyone running 4xxx CM or Doc, the two medic Boxes that give those heals are pitiful and if you want to test that out in 1v1 at endgame or in a duel go right ahead and post results.
 
Downvote. -Edit Silent is correct in that SWG Live was about group and solo play. They, at least before NGE at least, had solo and group play. Also this goes against what the Devs have stated intention wise for variety of builds which is why 4xxx BH can hunt players/jedi now when it used to be MBH.
 
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Downvote - Diversity of builds is an important part of what makes the SWG skill system awesome. Forcing people to go all in on a healer tree for decent healing limits that.
 
Downvote -- in my opinion as a predominate crafter, the end result of this proposal would nerf practically every play style so PVPers would be able to gank better.
 
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