TKA Balancing

TKA Balancing
This idea/suggestion is Open. You can respond to ask questions or discuss the idea and either vote it up or down if you believe it should or should not be implemented, respectively. Popular suggestions and ideas will be considered by the development team to become reality in-game.
Proposal
Balance TKA by doing one or more of the following:

(1) restoring part of center of being (regular center of being for 4XXX TKA and advanced center of being for TKM);

(2) increase uptime of COB by 50-100%;

(3) increasing unarmed accuracy or unarmed damage skill mods in the TKA skill tree by 20% to 30%;

(4) either (i) granting TKA recon armor mitigation (light armor type) or (ii) increasing innate armor to 8000 protection for each armor protection type (kinetic, energy, and elemental);

(5) have focus movement break any and all types of snares and roots (including Jedi, except the 5 piece set for Ranger of course); and/or

(6) re-evaluate the effects of guardian strike and give TKA a unique ability like the other melee professions (fencer has bleed, blind strike, and high potency healing; beserker has armor break and crit increase; and lancer has intimidate and warcry). But TKA lacks an effective and unique combat ability/debuff. Perhaps a unique increase accuracy or increased knockdown ability. Something that makes the class unique and useful. COB and guardian strike are not potent enough and only benefit the user.

Open to other suggestions to balance TKA, but the following proposals seem to address what is precluding the profession from success. All the other melee professions have a unique role to play, but TKA has been neglected. Prepatch, TKA was much more tanky despite its low damage. But now it's the worst of both worlds, still low damage and not as tanky due to center of being nerf.
Justification
Although the latest patch made some significant improvements and skill point flexibility for the other melee classes, TKM appears to have been nerfed. After much testing on various jewelry sets and combinations, including a combination of a TKM build with a melee accuracy of over 300 and maximum unarmed critical chance, unarmed damage, and unarmed accuracy exotics, TKA still lacks sufficient damage potential and tanking for pvp with both normal players and jedi and are not a desirable profession for group pve content. Restoring center of being restores TKA to playing the tank role. Increasing TKA damage slightly prevents TKA from being relegated to the ignored "nuisance" in pvp fights. And granting TKA recon armor mitigation or increasing its innate armor to 8000 enables TKA to be a standalone advanced profession just like the other melee and ranged professions. As of now, TKA requires mastering another advanced profession to acquire armor mitigation or to forgo that path and rely on weak innate armor and a lack of numerous armor attachments. And even so, other melee combinations are much more effective, disincentivizing TKA. The 8000 innate armor option offsets the lack of TKA's access to numerous armor attachments. Other professions have the luxury of being standalone and obtaining armor mitigation and thereby reap the benefit of extra armor protection and additional armor attachments, which enables more skill point flexibility to mix and match other professions. Every other advanced class in the game has this luxury except for TKA. Lastly, focus movement at its current state is almost useless with sprint implemented. There should be some extra perk that comes with it, especially with TKA's low dps and the need to be close to his or her opponent. Every melee class except TKA has established a role in group content except TKA.
Motivation
In lore, even legends lore (the lore Restoration adopts), TKA is an elite melee art that rivals that of the Jedi arts. See https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Teräs_Käsi/Legends. Many players consider TKA the next best thing to Jedi from a roleplay and combat perspective, but are reluctant to use the profession for the shortcomings described above. This request is not to make TKA overpowered, but to address the shortcomings above. Even with the foregoing improvements, a standalone TKA would still have difficulty defeating the other melee and ranged professions (especially the ranged professions). This request is simply to balance TKA and have it be in the same footing as the other melee professions at the very least and to complement the other melee professions. Fencer, Beserker, and Lancer are professions we have in the real world. But TKA is unique to the Star Wars universe and should at the very least be on equal par to those professions.
Various balancing to TKA to make the profession viable in pvp and elite pve content (i.e., heroics).
 
So great care was taken during the open testing period to get feedback on the direction TKM (and everything else) was going. Reverting to original CoB is not going to happen, to be honest. Nor is a total overall of one of the professions likely to happen. There was a huge desire to remove nearly all 100% uptime abilities from the game to increase skill ceilings and prevent reliance on one specific build.

However, there's a few discussion worthy points that you made in your original post. Slight changes/tweaks to issues you've highlighted should be discussed in more detail. But don't expect a total overhaul either.
 
So great care was taken during the open testing period to get feedback on the direction TKM (and everything else) was going. Reverting to original CoB is not going to happen, to be honest. Nor is a total overall of one of the professions likely to happen. There was a huge desire to remove nearly all 100% uptime abilities from the game to increase skill ceilings and prevent reliance on one specific build.

However, there's a few discussion worthy points that you made in your original post. Slight changes/tweaks to issues you've highlighted should be discussed in more detail. But don't expect a total overhaul either.
Thank you. Yeah, that's understandable. I know there was a lot of effort to rebalance everything and we have to consider the other professions. But yes, it would be nice to take a look at TKA again for any potential, fair improvements and perhaps the other melee classes as well. If we want to broaden the discussion, ranged is still preferred over melee.
 
moving CoB to novice means , everybody will grab that and thats it , then master 2 of the other melee professions , IF anything i would like a DPS oriented heroic set being introduced
the current heroic set is kind of meh
 
moving CoB to novice means , everybody will grab that and thats it , then master 2 of the other melee professions , IF anything i would like a DPS oriented heroic set being introduced
the current heroic set is kind of meh
Thanks, I'm open to that idea. TKM can be tanky with a weakened CoB with certain combinations (e.g., master bh or master fencer). But yeah, a dps five piece for TKA would be nice.
 
moving CoB to novice means , everybody will grab that and thats it , then master 2 of the other melee professions , IF anything i would like a DPS oriented heroic set being introduced
the current heroic set is kind of meh
Instead of moving to novice, I edited the post above. Move COB to 4000. Then advanced COB for master only.
 
So great care was taken during the open testing period to get feedback on the direction TKM (and everything else) was going. Reverting to original CoB is not going to happen, to be honest. Nor is a total overall of one of the professions likely to happen. There was a huge desire to remove nearly all 100% uptime abilities from the game to increase skill ceilings and prevent reliance on one specific build.

However, there's a few discussion worthy points that you made in your original post. Slight changes/tweaks to issues you've highlighted should be discussed in more detail. But don't expect a total overhaul either.
After speaking with several melee experts in the game, they all acknowledge TKA at its current state is a waste of points and see no use of incorporating the profession into other builds. In contrast, other melee professions blend nicely (e.g., fencer and beserker or beserker and lancer, or a mix of the three etc.) -- due to each of those professions' special debuffs or heal abilities. TKA lacks anything like that. But many don't include TKA in that mix. Hence, the request to rebalance TKA is to make it a complimentary melee profession equal to the others. In conclusion, I think TKA should be looked at again, but of course I agree, not a complete overhaul.
 
I am running TKM, MLancer, Berserker xx44, Medic x23x and absolutely loving it.

You can alternate CoB (TKA), Perception (Lancer), Improved Guard Strike (TKA) and Sword Flurry (Berserk) to have a constant uptime of defensive buffs, choosing when to spike them together or spread them out. Try to keep Advanced Combo Attack up for more block chance (which helps a lot).

Then keep Advanced dizzy attack, intimidate, warcry, stunning blow up for basically all the debuffs you can find.

Then use Improved Spin Attack for the extra damage, Impale for the extra crit chance, Improved critical strike for big crits (use a melee weapon sliced for crit chance, not damage).

Just wanted to give another view of TKA, as I believe TKA DOES have features that work well with other profs, and is definetely not a waste of points.

Not saying balances are needed, but it feels like your trying to paint a picture thats too dark.

Sincerely,

A TKM who solos Krayt dragons and Melichae
 
I am running TKM, MLancer, Berserker xx44, Medic x23x and absolutely loving it.

You can alternate CoB (TKA), Perception (Lancer), Improved Guard Strike (TKA) and Sword Flurry (Berserk) to have a constant uptime of defensive buffs, choosing when to spike them together or spread them out. Try to keep Advanced Combo Attack up for more block chance (which helps a lot).

Then keep Advanced dizzy attack, intimidate, warcry, stunning blow up for basically all the debuffs you can find.

Then use Improved Spin Attack for the extra damage, Impale for the extra crit chance, Improved critical strike for big crits (use a melee weapon sliced for crit chance, not damage).

Just wanted to give another view of TKA, as I believe TKA DOES have features that work well with other profs, and is definetely not a waste of points.

Not saying balances are needed, but it feels like your trying to paint a picture thats too dark.

Sincerely,

A TKM who solos Krayt dragons and Melichae
Thanks for your insight. This is helpful and I will test that build you suggest. Remember, correlation is not causation. I have tested similar builds and they are semi-successful not because of TKM, but more because of the secondary classes you chose: lancer and beserker and their unique abilities. The point is that blending the other professions without TKM provides an even more successful template than using TKM due to the various additional special abilities (e.g, fencer and lancer would have more defense, healing, bleed attacks, and action and mind draining while still leaving points for beserker). That disparity is what this post addresses—not that TKM is completely useless. And it is that utility disparity which dissuades a need or incentive for TKM. COB and guardian strike are too short and weak to make up for the other melee class abilities. This is clear in testing. Second, you must also respectfully consider that TKM has little utility in pvp and group pve content. The other melee class abilities complement groups (intimidate, aoes, warcry, cone blind attack, healing potency increase etc). TKM lacks this utility for groups. Guardian strike and COB only benefit the user.
 
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As others have stated COB needs to stay as is because of all the testing that was done to balance that power over what all the other professions have , Jedi Aura is up less then half the time COB is up just for clarification. I am open to some of your other concerns. I do agree a small bump in your innate armor would be justified to 6800 to make it more on par with battle armor for anyone that wants to play pure TKM with no Armor. For others that want the Armor protection and the ability to use Armor Sea's I do agree give TKM Recon certification then it would give all Brawler classes the window to have access to the armor just like, all the Ranged classes have. This would also allow a Bounty hunter to have the TKM/Brawler class and have Recon Armor Certification. Lastly for your concern TKM does not have a power of its own to make it unique, I would give it a close the distance power that is up every 30 sec this would allow a TKM to jump up to 35m (pistol range) to a target (both friendly or enemy) because of how light and fast they are in lore.
 
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I wouldn't mind TKA getting some love. I don't know enough to see the complete picture, but I support considerations to this profession so long as it doesn't create a "broken" build somehow.
 
So great care was taken during the open testing period to get feedback on the direction TKM (and everything else) was going. Reverting to original CoB is not going to happen, to be honest. Nor is a total overall of one of the professions likely to happen. There was a huge desire to remove nearly all 100% uptime abilities from the game to increase skill ceilings and prevent reliance on one specific build.

However, there's a few discussion worthy points that you made in your original post. Slight changes/tweaks to issues you've highlighted should be discussed in more detail. But don't expect a total overhaul either.
Might I suggest reverting CoB to its original state, but only accessible when the user has an unarmed weapon, and only to the equivalent of 75-80% uptime to prevent over abuse of the ability in junction with other professions.

I do like the proposal to increase innate armor to compare with standard primus layered resistances (6800+) with the option of wearing recon armor to allow for SEAs use.

I understand with this proposal, it won't stop an individual from using COB with other builds/professions (weapon swapping etc), but there needs to be a viable non-jedi profession as a tank. And as a former TKM/Lancer/Doc 4xxx normie tank, I can say that the game doesn't allow for many consistent "normie" Main Tanks in heroics (from my experiences in the game thus far)...it's almost REQUIRED. Seems imbalanced to me.

Thank you.
 
COB Buff
Give the advanced combo attack buff a chance on block or on damage to reset COB cooldown. This could allow COB to be up 100% but only while actively tanking damage.

Innate Armor
Give power boost an extra 800 health (1.8k total) and 75 accuracy and defense if no armor is equipped. Assuming this can use the same mechanic that determines if innate armor is effective, it can offset the loss of stats from bracers and biceps as well as the 875 health you can get from capped armor health.
 
As others have stated COB needs to stay as is because of all the testing that was done to balance that power over what all the other professions have , Jedi Aura is up less then half the time COB is up just for clarification. I am open to some of your other concerns. I do agree a small bump in your innate armor would be justified to 6800 to make it more on par with battle armor for anyone that wants to play pure TKM with no Armor. For others that want the Armor protection and the ability to use Armor Sea's I do agree give TKM Recon certification then it would give all Brawler classes the window to have access to the armor just like, all the Ranged classes have. This would also allow a Bounty hunter to have the TKM/Brawler class and have Recon Armor Certification. Lastly for your concern TKM does not have a power of its own to make it unique, I would give it a close the distance power that is up every 30 sec this would allow a TKM to jump up to 35m (pistol range) to a target (both friendly or enemy) because of how light and fast they are in lore.
Thank you, those are all great ideas (as well as what others have said too). I think we can all agree TKA can be improved in a fair way that does not overpower the class.
 
I'm TKM and tanking 4+ LVL 80's. It's a build problem, not a class problem. Thumbs Down.
Thanks for your comment, but I respectfully disagree. I think many classes can defeat four level 80s, even ranged glass cannons can do that. I respectfully do not think that easy litmus test is dispositive for a purported tank profession. Further, please see my comment above about someone saying they can solo a krayt dragon with TKM. TKM is good with other melee professions, that's not the issue. The issue is that other melee profession combinations without TKM are substantially better, and TKM has no special abilities that sufficiently contribute to group content like the other melee professions (enhanced heals, intimidate, warcry, group buffs, etc.), thereby negating any need for TKM.
 
You would like 6800 armor or recon armor cert wouldn't you ? to make them on par with range classes.
Thanks, I think that's a great idea. But I also respectfully think in addition to those changes that there be a second look at guardian strike and see if its effect can be modified to either increase dps or benefit a group for group content. I understand your position on COB, and I know we respectfully differ on that.
 
I think one of the main issues of TKM is that it is considered to be a "tank" role according to the triangle posted by restoration. However, its still increasingly hard for a normie tank to run hard/nightmare heroics whereas a Jedi Tank can do it with ease. I know the arguments of having jedi remain powerful but not overpowered is strong but I do believe TKM/Lancer (Combined) should be able with passive defensives or mitigation built into its core tree's should be also able to tank these level of heroics. For comparison, my build is TKm/MLancer/xx4x Beserker/x41x medic. My armor is all 35's Melee General, Defense General, Toughness and also sliced for damage intake decrease. My exotics are also defensive focused and fully buffed having 7.2k health, however on Hard from lets say the Rancor first boss of AM (Don't remember the spelling), will still hit me for 2-3k damage even through COB/Perception/flurry/ and defensive buffs provided by TKA abilities and intimidate.

I think if the server defines TKM/Lancer as tanks then a fully geared/spec'd normie tank should be on par with mitigation comparing to jedi. In the current state right now, if you're running hard/nightmare jedi tanks are a requirement which shouldn't be the case if this game was built on "Play your way". I would propose adding block chance into TKM and MLancer with the TKM Jewelry set also having block chance (Not a PVP Perk considering beserker+Ranger seems to be the meta for melee BH's).