Open Other A balanced proposal to streamline resource tracking

jacksabib · Aug 18, 2022

Ever since the early days of SWG live, resource spawn information tracking has been a community endeavor. Over the years, websites such as Galaxyharvester and Swgaide and Swgtracker(Thanks Suma and Sena) have been developed to help report and organize resource information. Unfortunately, the uploading of data tends to be a burden that is accepted by few and they are the unsung heroes of the entire crafting system. This burden is accepted by few because there is no tangible reward and is frankly a pain in the neck. Nonetheless, the crafting system basically requires sharing of this information as tracking the resources for your profession would be a full time job by itself. Not many would consider this fun or engaging gameplay.

Historically on R3, the usage of the Complete Survey Tool made this whole process easier as you could sample all types of resources, including creature resources. This is obviously not fair to the scouts/rangers of the world as it diminishes the utility of their profession. That being said, the removal of the ability to sample creature resources did increase the burden placed on those who are willing to discover and track resources which will be a pain point for most crafters. This disproportionally affects newer crafters who did not get the advantage of over a year of hand sampleable creature resources. A server with a larger population would be more able to absorb the drawbacks of this change, but on a smaller populated server this quickly becomes a significant burden.

During a public discussion on the R3 discord last night, Aconite mentioned that an API currently exists that makes it possible to develop a in game service that could track and share resource stats in game and compile this data for use by the server's crafters. Aconite said that the capability exists, however the dev team has not decided on whether or not this will be pursued. The details that he shared were that it would be an in game system, would still rely on player actions/input, it would require a subscription costing ingame credits. He also mentioned that upload to a 3rd party site was off the table, so I consider that as a proposal DOA.

I believe that a system as outlined by Aconite would be a fair and reasonable compromise. It would be unique to the server and furthers the goal of controlling inflation via a credit sink. I propose that the system be developed with the goal of compiling resource data inputs from ingame actions and displays them on a website/document to be used by artisans who have paid their ingame subscription.

As usual, the devil is in the details with how a system would work. Here are my initial suggestions:

An ingame mechanic requiring a periodic subscription be established which enables access to a resource information sharing system.
Resources sampled on a survey tool used by a subscribed player will have their stats saved and transmitted to the proposed system for sharing.
Give scouts the ability to either scan a creature to determine the quality of their creature resources, or have their resource stats transmitted on sample.
The subscription cost of this system should be high enough to justify its value, but low enough to be accessible enough to not act as a undue barrier to entry for new crafters. I would suggest deferring to the devs who have access to the economic snapshot tool to set/adjust the specific price.
Out of spawn resources should be purged daily, unless an alternate mechanic is added to account for this.

Also, upload of the resource stats do not need to be instant. If the community feels that a delay is necessary, other servers have done two day delays on auto populations. A delay rewards those sampling resources with a head start over the rest of the server. In practice, this works just fine for all.

I believe such a system keeps an aspect of the game that few, if any, find enjoyable manageable by streamlining the process of resource information sharing. It is optional in nature, furthers the goal of controlling economic inflation, requires player participation and is respectful to those who play scout/ranger and those who do work to stay ahead of the curve on resources.

I look forward to seeing discussion and further ideas on this one.

EthavanCrowe · Aug 18, 2022

Two things would inform and feed the other, you've mentioned the API, but I don't see the surveying/sampling minigame:

Resource surveying minigame that rewards a 1k resource deed of ANY server best resource, and other rewards still up in the air that we need to talk about:

Secondly, an API that enables an ingame subscription service that the above surveying and sampling players feeds into this API:

Further discussion is warranted to inform the devs HOW we'd like to see this work in detail as well as rewards we would like to see from the surveying minigame.

Please continue the discussion!

jacksabib · Aug 18, 2022

I did not mention because I considered them distinct ideas, and the resource mini game is already cleared for development (just delayed). But they do certainly affect the same system, so they are part of the same conversation. I'm glad you mentioned it.

I think they do work hand in hand. One idea gives reward to ATK surveying, while the other streamlines the overall tracking of resources.

ByteMe · Aug 19, 2022

I think that you'd have to implement a delay in reporting to make this a viable endeavor worth putting in-game credits into. Once the information is available, it is reasonable to assume that it will be shared out-of-game with non-paying players (i.e. posted on sites such as Galaxyharvester, Swgaide and Swgtracker).

I'm disturbed that development removed the Complete Resource Tool without having a process in place to replace it. I also don't understand the reluctance to export the data directly through an API several days after it spawns. Not doing this means that we might lose historical data on resources that were never surveyed. It also places a huge burden on a relatively small player base and even smaller set of really dedicated people who try to find and report new resources.

Finally, I believe there is now a gap between animal resources and others in that I can land on a planet and pull up a scanner to see what resources are still viable on that planet. I can't do this anymore for animal resources. The only way to find out if an animal resource is still available is to hunt down the animals and manually make that determination (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I'm excited to see what development has instore for us and I'm looking forward to the future.

savacc · Aug 19, 2022

I should be offended that you do not mention SWGCraft, that predated all other resource reporting sites for SWG

For a long time I have been of the opinion that if players hadn't started SWGCraft, that SOE/LA would have had to, and probably made it an ingame feature. SWGCraft, and the sites spawned from it, allowed the game developers to stay away. That is still the case with Res3 today.
Aconite tells us that he wrote this code, and is contemplating using it, to create a "credit sink", to control inflation. Personally, I don't think it will be very effective in that role. What it will do is change the way resources are reported to the resource sites. Aconite says Res3 is opposed to server admins directly reporting to the sites. This would just remove them one step from doing exactly that.
Anyone familiar with the Emu knows that today Emu servers directly report to Galaxy Harvester. It didn't used to be that way. The Emu used to feel the same as Res3, but their thinking evolved. I would say we are seeing the same evolution of thinking slowly happening on Res3.
I would be kind of surprised if Res3, goes through with it and does this, because it is not yet needed. Resource reporting is very fragile, but working. I think it is very wise to have a plan B in place if resource reporting goes south. But for now, they can get away with doing nothing.

Vypo · Aug 22, 2022

savacc said:
create a "credit sink", to control inflation.

This might work for crafters who've been playing since day 1 but would discourage new crafters.

jacksabib · Aug 22, 2022

Vypo said:
This might work for crafters who've been playing since day 1 but would discourage new crafters.

The hypothetical system is completely optional. I would imagine for most, nothing would change because this data would still make its way to a 3rd party site (and most would still need those sites to manage their inventory and determine best resources by schematic). If done right, the credit cost would not be too high to feel like a significant barrier to the artisan and would be a value add to their operation due to time savings.

jacksabib · Aug 22, 2022

savacc said:
I should be offended that you do not mention SWGCraft, that predated all other resource reporting sites for SWG
For a long time I have been of the opinion that if players hadn't started SWGCraft, that SOE/LA would have had to, and probably made it an ingame feature. SWGCraft, and the sites spawned from it, allowed the game developers to stay away. That is still the case with Res3 today.
Aconite tells us that he wrote this code, and is contemplating using it, to create a "credit sink", to control inflation. Personally, I don't think it will be very effective in that role. What it will do is change the way resources are reported to the resource sites. Aconite says Res3 is opposed to server admins directly reporting to the sites. This would just remove them one step from doing exactly that.
Anyone familiar with the Emu knows that today Emu servers directly report to Galaxy Harvester. It didn't used to be that way. The Emu used to feel the same as Res3, but their thinking evolved. I would say we are seeing the same evolution of thinking slowly happening on Res3.
I would be kind of surprised if Res3, goes through with it and does this, because it is not yet needed. Resource reporting is very fragile, but working. I think it is very wise to have a plan B in place if resource reporting goes south. But for now, they can get away with doing nothing.

I pretty much completely agree. My goal here is to try to propose a system that the devs would be interested in implementing and try to streamline/improve the flow of information however possible.

Also sorry for the miss. I knew I would accidently leave someone out lol.

skye · Aug 27, 2022

Before I add my comments, want to say thank you to the number of players who consistently contributed and uploaded data to all the resource tracking sites. It is appreciated.

Now for my comments: It is is 2022, and games evolve, even one's as old as swg. The end goal should be to keep player retention, keep the game evolving and consult with the end-users, the players. Please don't ever lose sight of the player base. Some of us have remained loyal to the server since day one, awaiting the next publish, the hotfixes, the new content with hiccups and all. Why? Because we feel it is getting better and improved. Some of which has been suggested by the original post has merit.

RoHRemis · Aug 27, 2022

I have to admit that after reading this, I realized that acquiring resources is the biggest deterrent for me to get into crafting. I am never able to AFK anything in any game, so I support anti-AFK measures, but limiting things that makes ATK collection pushes me even further. An in-game system to help me better find stuff would definitely be enticing

Search

Search

Open Other A balanced proposal to streamline resource tracking

jacksabib

EthavanCrowe

jacksabib

ByteMe

savacc

Vypo

jacksabib

jacksabib

skye

RoHRemis