Add Armor to Profession Trees

Add Armor to Profession Trees
This idea/suggestion is Open. You can respond to ask questions or discuss the idea and either vote it up or down if you believe it should or should not be implemented, respectively. Popular suggestions and ideas will be considered by the development team to become reality in-game.
Derpyh

Derpyh

Proposal
Add additional Armor to profession trees for non-Jedi.

These are examples of what you could do and why; i'm not saying to do it; just giving examples of what could be done.

Bounty Hunter = Every box except Master gets +110 Armor. This equals an additional 1870 armor, and then the Master box can be +130 to equal an additional 2000 armor.

Berserker = Every box except Master gets +80 Armor. This equals an additional 1360 armor, and then the Master box can be +140 to equal an additional 1500 armor. (Just an example, I am sure other melee trees could get armor).

Commando = Every box except Master gets +65 Armor; this is so a Teras Kazi Master can't just grab the grenade tree (for example). This equals an additional 1105 armor, and then the Master box can be +95 to equal an additional 1200 armor.

Squad Leader = Every box except Master gets +45 Armor; this further incentivizes getting more skill boxes and equals an additional 765 armor, and then the Master box can be +85 to equal an additional 850 armor.

Doctor = Every box except Master gets +40 Armor; this further incentivizes getting more skill boxes and equals an additional 680 armor, and then the Master box can be +70 to equal an additional 750 armor
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Justification
The Armor values are based off the NGE. Adding armor past a certain point suffers diminishing returns but only Jedi are able to get to this point and I believe it makes sense, especially for normal players to get the same opportunity to get a little more base damage reduction. Small changes like this will push normal plyers to be able to do better in combat which is gravely required at the moment.

A lot of professions in some way gained additional armor in the NGE, even Medic (NGE) gained some additional armor on their Defensive Tree, this is because of the way it scales and the way Armor diminishing returns works.
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Motivation
I like seeing improvements to the game and I thought it would be cool to see more variation in the profession trees. We rely way too much on a single protection (+defense) in my opinion and we could use more variation in gameplay.
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Variety is the spice of life and I feel like we rely on one type of defense too much when NGE and older versions of the game had dodge, block, additional armor, damage reduction, dot damage reduction... ectect.
 
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Creative Idea and I am all for variety in both armor and weapons and types.

I am curious and not being critical, just trying to follow (I can be slow sometimes) so if you dont mind a few queries:

Why do normal players gravely need this?

What, if anything, would this do to the Jedi/Padawan when they reduce them to 1.5 to 2X normal? Would they have to adjust them to adjust to this so it stay?
 
Tyr said:
Creative Idea and I am all for variety in both armor and weapons and types.

I am curious and not being critical, just trying to follow (I can be slow sometimes) so if you dont mind a few queries:

Why do normal players gravely need this?

What, if anything, would this do to the Jedi/Padawan when they reduce them to 1.5 to 2X normal? Would they have to adjust them to adjust to this so it stay?
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They gravely need small changes to make them better. This actually isn't a huge amount of damage reduction if you look at the armor values. I am a firm believer that normal players need several buffs.

This is from playing and testing all the endgame content coming and pvping *and* what I hear from other players. So it's a huge combination of a lot of details I know and foresee.

Non-TKMs die so quickly that they are just not fun to play right now, as much as I joke about dying so much in end-game content the joke is wearing off.

I am not a fan of pushing Jedi down too much, not only because I play one, but because I play both and the endgame content is just that hard when you don't have the defense to dodge attacks.

You could say: "Well, get it."; but why have so many professions if you can only play one? Why should everyone be at least xx3x Teras Kazi Artist or TKM to play the game? That isn't fun. That isn't how CU, NGE, or Pre-Cu was designed.
 
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I don't think anybody can ever take you serious because all you do is throw spaghetti at the wall
1. First you write this PV asking for more armor but then you state how "This actually isn't a huge amount of damage reduction if you look at the armor values" so basically a waste of Dev time , imo
2. The other PV where you were crying about grinding MLS to craft a saber because you don't have time and your time is precious but now somehow you thoroughly tested all endgame and presented no factual numbers or evidence other than "what i hear from other players"
3. If the endgame content you refer to is Mustafar instances , the only ones that are way unbalanced is Nightmare mode and as a normie character no amount of armor is going to save you there
 
jcan0918 said:
I don't think anybody can ever take you serious because all you do is throw spaghetti at the wall
1. First you write this PV asking for more armor but then you state how "This actually isn't a huge amount of damage reduction if you look at the armor values" so basically a waste of Dev time , imo
2. The other PV where you were crying about grinding MLS to craft a saber because you don't have time and your time is precious but now somehow you thoroughly tested all endgame and presented no factual numbers or evidence other than "what i hear from other players"
3. If the endgame content you refer to is Mustafar instances , the only ones that are way unbalanced is Nightmare mode and as a normie character no amount of armor is going to save you there
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I will take your auto-downvote but further explain why your incorrect.

1) It isn't a waste because small changes and adjustments can add up.
2) This isn't throwing anything at a wall. All my suggestions are calculated and measured around playing with builds and values as well as looking into the past and what did work.
3) No, but even 5% more damage reduction can give you at least 1 more second and change an outcome. This also isn't strictly a PvE thing, but also PvP.

I also talk to others playing the game, watch streams of people playing test-center. I know heroics coming are harder than that.

Unfortunately I can only make one suggestion, but I agree with you. Why do you think I mentioned this as a small part of larger changes that could be done to help the situation.
 
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savacc said:
I'm not in favor of adding more magic spells to the game. I would support more crafted items that added to armor resistance of reduction.
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It would be cool to have more armor variation and stronger armor, but I would rather have both. The problem however with your suggestion is it doesn't fix the issue of everyone playing the same thing and being the same.
 
Derpyh said:
everyone playing the same thing and being the same
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Now making sweeping generalizations like that don't help your case. It may seem to you that way but none of my 4 characters has any tk and do just fine. I know a number of folks who do and do not have tk. I like your variety and creative idea but please try to limit the sweeping generalizations. I will agree that tk is the most popular for it's abilities but that is COB really but not everyone has it or wants it. If you look at the numbers by profession it seems Fencer (that used to be #1 on LIVE for a good stretch) is the least played combat class here.
 
Tyr said:
Now making sweeping generalizations like that don't help your case. It may seem to you that way but none of my 4 characters has any tk and do just fine. I know a number of folks who do and do not have tk. I like your variety and creative idea but please try to limit the sweeping generalizations. I will agree that tk is the most popular for it's abilities but that is COB really but not everyone has it or wants it. If you look at the numbers by profession it seems Fencer (that used to be #1 on LIVE for a good stretch) is the least played combat class here.
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Yeah. It's because it has nothing.

There is no point to playing it.

I'm being hyperbolic, so forgive that; but when your arguing you tend to use strong words.

Adding more values to armor isn't exactly a bad idea. However, it doesn't change the balance of the classes when TK has much more weight to it than any other class right now. I don't count healing classes in this because its more of a requirement.

If things were more balanced and improved; it would be a mighty good suggestion. However these things take steps.


I will add. I think I am pretty good at making creative suggestions and ideas. However, I am *really* bad at communication, talking to other people, ectect.
 
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I find it amusing that on LIVE, at least the early days swordsman with composite armor was the one and was everywhere. Here it is now at the very bottom of the heap.
 
Tyr said:
I find it amusing that on LIVE, at least the early days swordsman with composite armor was the one and was everywhere. Here it is now at the very bottom of the heap.
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Swordsman isn't played very often because it actually increases damage dealt to itself, which is counterproductive to a melee character who has to be in the thick of it, thus taking more damage by nature.

Even on Everquest which Berserk (skill) was originally made to MMOs, it usually gave you attack speed (combat speed in swg terms), move speed, and made you tankier.

It usually had a cost of mana per second (mind probably) but didn't actually make you weaker.

It was very popular class during both Precu and CU.
 
Derpyh said:
Yeah. It's because it has nothing.

There is no point to playing it.
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That is not true, and you don't play a fencer. Fencer is one of fastest melee classes, has access to weapons that are not all kinetic based. Has 3 AOE Cones for taking down multiple mobs at the same time very fast. Once it is Master it is one of the most accurate professions barring unarmed combat. It really only has one down side you need basic armor break to do a'lot more single target damage.
 
Felixx said:
That is not true, and you don't play a fencer. Fencer is one of fastest melee classes, has access to weapons that are not all kinetic based. Has 3 AOE Cones for taking down multiple mobs at the same time very fast. Once it is Master it is one of the most accurate professions barring unarmed combat. It really only has one down side you need basic armor break to do a'lot more single target damage.
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How much damage do you do on the ground dead?
 
Ent buffs give 2k resistance, each. 1k can be gained from SL, Static base stims give a ton, armor layers, the list goes on. Mitigation loses meaning past 9k, this is a complete waste of time.

This isn’t a PV to increase normie class effectiveness, this is a PV to make it so you don’t have to actually play the game to get the same resistances as someone who does.

Did you bother consulting any of the melee experts on the server who’ve been resoundingly successful as to why they don’t play melee, currently? Or did you come to these conclusions based on some inaccurate thought experiment you did?
 
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elchapodan said:
Ent buffs give 2k resistance, each. 1k can be gained from SL, Static base stims give a ton, armor layers, the list goes on. Mitigation loses meaning past 9k, this is a complete waste of time.

This isn’t a PV to increase normie class effectiveness, this is a PV to make it so you don’t have to actually play the game to get the same resistances as someone who does.

Did you bother consulting any of the melee experts on the server who’ve been resoundingly successful as to why they don’t play melee, currently? Or did you come to these conclusions based on some inaccurate thought experiment you did?
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It isn't much, but it still can sort of add up. Only Jedi currently can get armor that high, which is funny because they are wearing robes.

With ent buffs it can go up more, but it has diminishing returns.

This is actually good design, so if they did add it it benefits you way less to stack it up; but it is still ok.
 
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Felixx said:
I solo the spider queen and her guards with Fencer so it can't be that bad. Stop saying you have tried everything because it is clear you have not.
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And I ran a level 1 through the spider cave. I wasn't talking about this or other easy content. If it's too easy it should be buffed up and be harder. I also don't really know your build. For all I know, your a Master TK/Fencer.
 
I don't like this. And I also don't fully understand how you decided that some professions should get more armour than others. It just seems like a balancing nightmare.
I don't get why BH gets more armour than Doc for example.. when I use my BH in PvE I don't even take armour from the ent buff like most people.. I take dmg / accuracy because I just shouldn't get hit, it's a waste.

Armour as a thing is also massively affected by DR's and Armour Break, I would much rather see more in the realm of flat mitigation.

I would much rather see some item that has armour / mitigation instead of skill mods, whether it's something like a backpack from heroics , or a new crafted item such as some beskar plating or something that lives on a new equipment socket they made just like other items recently.

also your comments on TK and CoB.. tbh I agree, and I would actually like the see the dmg reduction mod come in earlier rather than just the highest level one, that would then force people to do less damage and toggle it off if they want to damage effectively.
 
civic said:
I don't like this. And I also don't fully understand how you decided that some professions should get more armour than others. It just seems like a balancing nightmare.
I don't get why BH gets more armour than Doc for example.. when I use my BH in PvE I don't even take armour from the ent buff like most people.. I take dmg / accuracy because I just shouldn't get hit, it's a waste.

Armour as a thing is also massively affected by DR's and Armour Break, I would much rather see more in the realm of flat mitigation.

I would much rather see some item that has armour / mitigation instead of skill mods, whether it's something like a backpack from heroics , or a new crafted item such as some beskar plating or something that lives on a new equipment socket they made just like other items recently.

also your comments on TK and CoB.. tbh I agree, and I would actually like the see the dmg reduction mod come in earlier rather than just the highest level one, that would then force people to do less damage and toggle it off if they want to damage effectively.
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It's not that complicated.

I followed the steps that NGE took and then took examples from that, then I categorized the defenses. The reason BH gets more armor is they are a class for fighting Jedi, so they of course would need the highest base armor rating because they were the most susceptible to it. It wouldn't be such a waste if you had more of it, plus I don't think armor from buffs and other sources are affected, or they can be made to not be if that is your concern.

It is affected by DR, and that makes it a great addition to add because its much harder to break the game with, making it actually easier to balance, not harder.

Balancing around straight damage mitigation with no details is actually harder because it has no limits, and its hard to imagine what comes from it after you add in other things like crystal buffs, ectect.

Do you understand more now?
 
Derpyh said:
It's not that complicated.

I followed the steps that NGE took and then took examples from that, then I categorized the defenses. The reason BH gets more armor is they are a class for fighting Jedi, so they of course would need the highest base armor rating because they were the most susceptible to it. It wouldn't be such a waste if you had more of it, plus I don't think armor from buffs and other sources are affected, or they can be made to not be if that is your concern.

It is affected by DR, and that makes it a great addition to add because its much harder to break the game with, making it actually easier to balance, not harder.

Balancing around straight damage mitigation with no details is actually harder because it has no limits, and its hard to imagine what comes from it after you add in other things like crystal buffs, ectect.

Do you understand more now?
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"It's not that complicated"

Dude , sorry but all your PV's are complicated as ****. I thought mine back in the day were bad , but sheeeeeeesh.


"BH is a class for fighting Jedi".

- Didn't BH get the adjustment so you don't need master anymore and only need investigation III ? So honestly at that point they are barely a BH.
- Is your point then PvP related ? then why not PvP Damage Reduction instead of armour ? Jedi literally have an insane armour break, making the armour increase barely worth it anyway, and then what about non-Jedi which I'm sure you thought about.
- Straight damage mitigation is actually easier to balance because you know and can predict the outcome way simpler. It also consistently accounts for all damage types and you don't have to assume armour types (kin, energy, elemental etc.).

Are you gonna make better , clearer PV's now ?
 
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