Implemented Addressing the BH TEFs after SF battles.

poedashi · Jul 12, 2022

Since release, there's been some debate on whether or not BHs should be able to take the same bounty they placed after losing to an SF fight. Players would die SF, clone in the city that's being fought at, take the bounty placed on the DBr, then 1v1 that player in the middle of a SF fight. There are a few other topics that revolve around the meta of being BH and doing similar things, like grouping with 3 bounty hunters, taking the same bounty placed, singling out that bounty while said bounty is in a group with the same people that were just fighting SF or in general, 3 bounty hunters showing up, and 7 people watching a 1v1, 1v2 or 1v3 and complaining about not being able to help in any way, complaining that its emersion breaking, ruins the fun multiple different activates in game... im really only trying to get some discussion going on how we can combat the first mentioned problem.

i feel like a small timer between having a bounty placed and it showing up on the BH terms could fix the BH TEFs during SF fights... as far as grouping with a person with a bounty and having to watch 3 bh kill someone your grouped with being a problem i feel is another subject.. but could possibly be addressed in the same go as the original problem mentioned.

Hope to hear from the Dev team soon.
~Dobby
Also give us socks. our feet's cold. HOTSOCKS for everyone. you get a sock, i get a sock. maybe designer socks. Czerka Corp. company socks.

Kazhar · Jul 13, 2022

EthavanCrowe said:
Now hold on.... A BH putting on a mask to join the party to use deceit to catch his mark off guard has historically and even modernly been a perfectly valid tactic for hunting and assassination. It's perfectly immersive, doesn't break any fourth walls, makes perfect sense in the chaos of a civil galactic war... It makes no sense to prevent that. If you PvP, you get a bounty, you know that, head on a swivel folks. You signed up for this.

thats not the issue, the problem are random bhs TEFing people mid fights, and that sucks

RoHRemis · Jul 13, 2022

Kazhar said:
thats not the issue, the problem are random bhs TEFing people mid fights, and that sucks

Just happened to me and it was really lame. Neutrals shouldn't be able to enter.

RGViza · Jul 13, 2022

EthavanCrowe said:
Did Han Solo get a pass when his "friend", who pretended to be on the same side as him, gave him over to collect his bounty? NO! While he was involved with the GCW, he got GOT because of a bounty on his head while he was with "friends".

Don't take this away from Star Wars.

You're confusing smuggler with bounty hunter, but I kind of get what you're saying. Vader knew who the players were when he occupied Bespin. The bounty hunter deciet happened at Jabba's where Jabba was literally surrounded by bounty hunters all the time so it's easier to blend in as a BH. If you want a real spy, have someone's toon go imperial. Spies give up certain aspects of their lives to do their work, like friends...

EthavanCrowe · Jul 13, 2022

No one ever complained about this tactic in Live, so it's kinda boggling me that it's a complaint now. In Live, they knew a possible BH TEF during invasions, Restuss, dueling, name your form of PvP, was possible. What do you want to do, make a BH vs target arena or something? That seems ridiculous.

RGViza · Jul 13, 2022

EthavanCrowe said:
No one ever complained about this tactic in Live, so it's kinda boggling me that it's a complaint now. In Live, they knew a possible BH TEF during invasions, Restuss, dueling, name your form of PvP, was possible. What do you want to do, make a BH vs target arena or something? That seems ridiculous.

Flagging the BH as an unfriendly in the pvp zone since they're not in the occupying faction isn't unreasonable. Originally if a BH was not neutral and was collecting a bounty against a faction person, and the bh was opposing faction, other overts could join in the fight. It's much more realistic to think someone's fellow soldiers would jump in and help someone getting attacked by anyone.

By TEFing a bounty hunter of neutral faction in the pvp zone this mechanic is enabled during an invasion. Wait til after the battle if you don't want the guy's fellow soldiers jumping in.

EthavanCrowe · Jul 13, 2022

RGViza said:
Flagging the BH as an unfriendly in the pvp zone since they're not in the occupying faction isn't unreasonable. Originally if a BH was not neutral and was collecting a bounty against a faction person, and the bh was opposing faction, other overts could join in the fight. It's much more realistic to think someone's fellow soldiers would jump in and help someone getting attacked by anyone.

By TEFing a bounty hunter of neutral faction in the pvp zone this mechanic is enabled during an invasion. Wait til after the battle if you don't want the guy's fellow soldiers jumping in.

Ohh, so you guys are only talking about BHs that go in without flagging up? I'm speaking more of the tactic (especially in Restuss as you can't even enter without flagging up) of flaggin up via /factionhelper as the same faction as your target, blending in for a while, then pouncing at the right time. This should remain a valid tactic. Dirty? Certainly, as that's an Underworld thing to do.

Vadarios · Jul 13, 2022

EthavanCrowe said:
Did Han Solo get a pass when his "friend", who pretended to be on the same side as him, gave him over to collect his bounty? NO! While he was involved with the GCW, he got GOT because of a bounty on his head while he was with "friends".

Don't take this away from Star Wars.

Yeah, but if you're going that route, then his friends should all be able to help him when they see the BH start attacking.

daxface · Jul 13, 2022

I think simple logic can overcome this issue as stated earlier in that Post by many of you:

- Give BH Guild time to file the paperwork (30 min to 1 hour (maybe a random between 30 and 60 minutes?))
- A BH shouldn't be able to take a bounty he created

With that in place, a BH hunting a target in an invasion will most likely be legit and not personal vendetta.

Vadarios · Jul 13, 2022

EthavanCrowe said:
Ohh, so you guys are only talking about BHs that go in without flagging up? I'm speaking more of the tactic (especially in Restuss as you can't even enter without flagging up) of flaggin up via /factionhelper as the same faction as your target, blending in for a while, then pouncing at the right time. This should remain a valid tactic. Dirty? Certainly, as that's an Underworld thing to do.

Actually the biggest issue. People putting in their own bounty. There's really no equivalent in real life, because NOBODY puts in their own bounty after being killed, then goes and collects their own bounty... Course that whole being killed thing usually only happens once in the real world...(there are exceptions, but they are more the exception)

kalafax · Jul 13, 2022

I'm definitely for the BH guild taking time to file the Bounty, 1 hour sounds reasonable to me, but as low as 30 minutes or as long as 2 hours would be decent as well.

Should be obvious that a BH shouldn't be able to collect his own posted bounty, amazed it's even a thing as is.

The other big concern I think should be addressed is that a Bountys group should all get PvP TEFs versus a BH as soon as that BH opens up on its target.

It makes no sense to have to stand there and watch the BH and Bounty fight. I'm not sure where people got the idea that Bounty Hunting should be 1v1, but it's kind of a load of crap, you attack someone in my party and I should have the option to help them fight back. Now I can choose not to assist and this not be targetable by the BH, but as soon as I step in I should also be flagged for the BH.

Sure your bountys might always go in a group, so you need to be patient to catch them alone or unaware. Or you should have to go get a group of your own, then ideally if you attack your Bounty, the BH and his group should get PvP flagged for the Bounty and its group, possibly turning this into an awesome brawl.

Additionally to this system I think it would be great for the BH to get extra rewards for any of the Bountys additional party members he took down upon completion of the mission (assuming the BH could complete it) so that the BH gets compensated for having to take on more then the original intended Bounty. Plus then the BH can split there rewards with those they brought along for backup.

I know it was long, but I think this could introduce some cool situations for the BH system, and alleviate some of the frustration associated with the current way of things.

EthavanCrowe · Jul 13, 2022

kalafax said:
I'm definitely for the BH guild taking time to file the Bounty, 1 hour sounds reasonable to me, but as low as 30 minutes or as long as 2 hours would be decent as well.

Should be obvious that a BH shouldn't be able to collect his own posted bounty, amazed it's even a thing as is.

The other big concern I think should be addressed is that a Bountys group should all get PvP TEFs versus a BH as soon as that BH opens up on its target.

It makes no sense to have to stand there and watch the BH and Bounty fight. I'm not sure where people got the idea that Bounty Hunting should be 1v1, but it's kind of a load of crap, you attack someone in my party and I should have the option to help them fight back. Now I can choose not to assist and this not be targetable by the BH, but as soon as I step in I should also be flagged for the BH.

Sure your bountys might always go in a group, so you need to be patient to catch them alone or unaware. Or you should have to go get a group of your own, then ideally if you attack your Bounty, the BH and his group should get PvP flagged for the Bounty and its group, possibly turning this into an awesome brawl.

Additionally to this system I think it would be great for the BH to get extra rewards for any of the Bountys additional party members he took down upon completion of the mission (assuming the BH could complete it) so that the BH gets compensated for having to take on more then the original intended Bounty. Plus then the BH can split there rewards with those they brought along for backup.

I know it was long, but I think this could introduce some cool situations for the BH system, and alleviate some of the frustration associated with the current way of things.

Ok fine, so group TEF becomes a thing. Suggesting that is all well and good, BUT how to prevent the obviously easy exploitation of that? Already people complain that they really don't get hunted by BHs, this could potentially kill it. If I pick up some player bounties and I go even 3 for 3 of always finding them in a group, even if I spend a few days tracking them waiting for the moment they're not in a group, it's way too easy in guilds to always be in a group or private home, I will not pick up another player bounty. I'd rather stick with Extremely Dangerous bounties at that point instead of wasting time on a player that will most likely be in a group.

How does the BH mitigate that? Engaging a full group is an absolute no go, there's no WAY a BH can take that on. This suggestion stands a very LARGE chance of killing player bounties altogether.

kalafax · Jul 13, 2022

EthavanCrowe said:
Ok fine, so group TEF becomes a thing. Suggesting that is all well and good, BUT how to prevent the obviously easy exploitation of that? Already people complain that they really don't get hunted by BHs, this could potentially kill it. If I pick up some player bounties and I go even 3 for 3 of always finding them in a group, even if I spend a few days tracking them waiting for the moment they're not in a group, it's way too easy in guilds to always be in a group or private home, I will not pick up another player bounty. I'd rather stick with Extremely Dangerous bounties at that point instead of wasting time on a player that will most likely be in a group.

How does the BH mitigate that? Engaging a full group is an absolute no go, there's no WAY a BH can take that on. This suggestion stands a very LARGE chance of killing player bounties altogether.

My answer to that was the BH bringing a group if his own, I understand most BHs see themselves as lone wolves but if your target always has buddies nearby, you either give it up, or you bring buddies of your own. Make some BH friends, or maybe a SL and Healer if some sort. Already 3 BHs can take the same Bounty correct?Just don't think the lone BH should always be the easy answer.

EthavanCrowe · Jul 13, 2022

And many years of Live has already given us the proverbial proof in the pudding that it just won't happen that way. Definition of insanity here....

kalafax · Jul 13, 2022

EthavanCrowe said:
And many years of Live has already given us the proverbial proof in the pudding that it just won't happen that way. Definition of insanity here....

I was just throwing a suggestion out there that could create some fun and new gameplay loops since there was a Player Voice in it. No reason to stay beholden to how live did things or tried to do things when we can come up with different ideas in the modern age. If people are happy with the current system then so be it.

EthavanCrowe · Jul 13, 2022

kalafax said:
I was just throwing a suggestion out there that could create some fun and new gameplay loops since there was a Player Voice in it. No reason to stay beholden to how live did things or tried to do things when we can come up with different ideas in the modern age. If people are happy with the current system then so be it.

Yeah, no worries! Ideas are always welcome, and I admit I'm biased because it was my favorite tactic, and in Live they verbally acknowledged that it's part of the PvP game they chose to take on. As long as there's a trade-off, i.e. take away one tactic, please give me another then. If not, you're just reducing my tactics and bounty hunting can't always be a group effort, especially since we don't exactly have Live numbers on our server.

MajorSethDawg · Jul 13, 2022

I feel like maybe putting the timer at 1 hour would be a reasonable time for an invasion to wrap up since some fights can happen in the crafting phase and I've seen people running to the BH terms after and then waiting until the invasion pops off before they decide to TEF someone in a group fight overall I like this idea as a whole as at least imo a BH should have to wait instead of jumping someone in a SF fight i'm a fan of the world PVP aspect of BH not the whole TEF someone in a groupfight.

Aconite · Oct 16, 2022

This change has been flagged for implementation. Time is still being evaluated.

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Implemented Addressing the BH TEFs after SF battles.

poedashi

Kazhar

RoHRemis

RGViza

EthavanCrowe

RGViza

EthavanCrowe

Vadarios

daxface

Vadarios

kalafax

EthavanCrowe

kalafax

EthavanCrowe

kalafax

EthavanCrowe

MajorSethDawg

Aconite

Development Lead