Open Outdoors Artisan Creature Cloning and Aging to Make Bio-engineers More Useful

shintufelper · Aug 2, 2023

The main goal of this PV is to give bio-engineers more continuous business. It does involve giving CH a minor decay like mechanism(if this proposal seems very familiar, it's because it's almost identical to my 'Droid Condition Decay to Make Droid Engineers More Useful' proposal).

The cloning of a pet would just reset the age, and not change anything else on the pet to not remove the hard work a CH has put into the pet. This can also be used to give value to less used or lower quality BE specific components.

This mechanism could also make other lines of BE useful to have skilled, with possibility for limited enhancements of pets in cloning. Would it not be cool if your 30 point first pet you tamed could, over generations of cloning, become a 50 point pet?(Mutations and perfect 60 points would still be reserved for fully bio-engineered pets).

Note: pets would be bio-linked, this proposal is not meant as an avenue to pet reselling/trading.

As always, any constructive feedback and discussion of alternate methods to accomplish these goals is welcome.

Aenith · Aug 2, 2023

Hell no, I didnt pay 30m plus for some of my pets to have to have them cloned again.

You wanna give BE utility? Make whatever they do to fix the acc problem on pets a consumable.

Aconite · Aug 3, 2023

For the record, I'm inclined to agree. Not necessarily saying this is the idea, but there needs to be something cycling in/out pets to keep Bio-Engineer engaged and active in their primary function, which is creating pets.

Aenith · Aug 3, 2023

Aconite said:
For the record, I'm inclined to agree. Not necessarily saying this is the idea, but there needs to be something cycling in/out pets to keep Bio-Engineer engaged and active in their primary function, which is creating pets.

Tying an entire class identity and ongoing function (ch) to a crafting profession with the highest startup, highest running cost, and lowest functioning population isn't it. Consumables are one thing, especially if they were easy to make for the avg BE. Maybe a rest function each pet requires after a set time forcing a ch to have multiple pets. But to force a ch to find a BE to fix a pet isn't viable or sustainable in a low pop game.

Aconite · Aug 3, 2023

To be more precise, the approach we're considering would most likely be the revival of the beast Vitality stat that was removed (and we would not include the Publish 9 change that eliminated Vitality loss from PvP)

All creature pets have a statistic called "Vitality" that starts at 100/100 and decreases each time they receive a deathblow. When your pet reaches 75, 50, and 25 vitality, it will receive a corresponding decrease in its statistics (i.e. Health/Action/Mind). While you can restore some of the lost vitality with a Bio-Engineer's "vitality pack," doing so will decrease the maximum vitality. Thus, if a pet is killed enough it will eventually reach a point at which its stat loss cannot be recovered.

unfair2u · Aug 3, 2023

Aconite said:
To be more precise, the approach we're considering would most likely be the revival of the beast Vitality stat that was removed (and we would not include the Publish 9 change that eliminated Vitality loss from PvP)

I would like to mention that in that age pets could actually be incapacitated here they only get death blow

shintufelper · Aug 3, 2023

Aenith said:
Hell no, I didnt pay 30m plus for some of my pets to have to have them cloned again.

You wanna give BE utility? Make whatever they do to fix the acc problem on pets a consumable.

I do want to say, a 30m pet and 2.5m pet are a difference of cosmetics. The choice to spend an extra 27.5m for next to no combat difference does not mean we should consider that everyone will spend the same. For the sake of debate we should assume the standard 60pt pet cost of 2.5mil in my opinion.

Aenith · Aug 3, 2023

unfair2u said:
I would like to mention that in that age pets could actually be incapacitated here they only get death blow

Ok, reduce or eliminate the use of any pet above a standard 1.5 mil. Got it, great idea! I thought the idea was to help BE be useful, not kill any chance of selling mutations for actual use.

Aenith · Aug 3, 2023

shintufelper said:
I do want to say, a 30m pet and 2.5m pet are a difference of cosmetics. The choice to spend an extra 27.5m for next to no combat difference does not mean we should consider that everyone will spend the same. For the sake of debate we should assume the standard 60pt pet cost of 2.5mil in my opinion.

And your absolutely right, no one would buy mutations anymore.

shintufelper · Aug 3, 2023

Aenith said:
Ok, reduce or eliminate the use of any pet above a standard 1.5 mil. Got it, great idea! I thought the idea was to help BE be useful, not kill any chance of selling mutations for actual use.

The cost of cloning a 1.5mil pet and a 30mil pet would be identical in my head, there should be no markup its just flat.

Aenith · Aug 3, 2023

shintufelper said:
The cost of cloning a 1.5mil pet and a 30mil pet would be identical in my head, there should be no markup its just flat.

Which cycles back to having a low pop game find a profession with the lowest functioning player base. Not to mention the avg player wealth being a lil over 2 mil (with billion credit players raising that avg) disputes the need for any credit sink past what would directly boost a profession...an this would not. It would help at most 10 players, the same players people already go to for BE products (and among the richest).

shintufelper · Aug 3, 2023

Aenith said:
Which cycles back to having a low pop game find a profession with the lowest functioning player base. Not to mention the avg player wealth being a lil over 2 mil (with billion credit players raising that avg) disputes the need for any credit sink past what would directly boost a profession...an this would not. It would help at most 10 players, the same players people already go to for BE products (and among the richest).

The goal here is to increase the number of BEs by having a lower quality product they can provide into the pet system. It is a direct boost to the BE profession, but it might not solve the small number of BE issue I will admit. I am not sure any product would really solve that general issue though.

elvismonkey · Aug 3, 2023

Pet decay because of price tags will always cause contention but something is needed.

Why can't the get some sort of battle fatigue (injured) and heal slowly over days . This could be sped up with a new craft able pet first aid kit.

Emergency first aid gives you an instant percentage battle fatigue heal for x many hours but pet fatitige x 1.5 maybe. Bit can only be used once between pet first aid.

Pet first aid increases fatigue healing by x.

Pets over a certain fatigue cannot be called.

Aenith · Aug 3, 2023

With the announcement that 60 million credits will arbitrarily be injected into the game every month, why exactly does anything need to be done at all? It certainly isnt an economy concern.

DarthLovecraft · Aug 3, 2023

Aenith said:
With the announcement that 60 million credits will arbitrarily be injected into the game every month, why exactly does anything need to be done at all? It certainly isnt an economy concern.

I /think/ the main goal is to make BE a class worth playing in the long term, especially when the playerbase is not very large and doesn't change very much from month to month. Other than vanity pets (mutated), which cost tens of millions to make and sell, BE lack any practical involvement in the market. They need something worthwhile that they can do on the level of repair kits or smaller similar "frequent" purchases the other trades enjoy.

Aenith · Aug 3, 2023

DarthLovecraft said:
I /think/ the main goal is to make BE a class worth playing in the long term, especially when the playerbase is not very large and doesn't change very much from month to month. Other than vanity pets (mutated), which cost tens of millions to make and sell, BE lack any practical involvement in the market. They need something worthwhile that they can do on the level of repair kits or smaller similar "frequent" purchases the other trades enjoy.

You mean stims? pet food? supplements? Im all for giving a crafting profession a boost. But why does that boost have to be at the cost to another profession.

DarthLovecraft · Aug 3, 2023

Chef makes pet food and supplements. The stims, I think that applies to BE - but they aren't really necessary, unless you're going against high end content. CH has good class-heals and often is combined with medic/doctor. I understand why you're considering it a "cost to another profession" but, interdependency is a goal in most mmo environments. Also, it seems that Resto is set on making things more "realistic" to serve the market health and address perceived needed change. That's the go to. Create a need for a repair or similar credit sink is the easy button - just like with the future of space, where they plan to add fuel and/or decay. So, really - I suggest anyone that doesn't want any extra "burden" on their own profession (CH in this case) to start brainstorming alternatives, because this is what you'll get without them.

Aenith · Aug 3, 2023

DarthLovecraft said:
Chef makes pet food and supplements. The stims, I think that applies to BE - but they aren't really necessary, unless you're going against high end content. CH has good class-heals and often is combined with medic/doctor. I understand why you're considering it a "cost to another profession" but, interdependency is a goal in most mmo environments. Also, it seems that Resto is set on making things more "realistic" to serve the market health and address perceived needed change. That's the go to. Create a need for a repair or similar credit sink is the easy button - just like with the future of space, where they plan to add fuel and/or decay. So, really - I suggest anyone that doesn't want any extra "burden" on their own profession (CH in this case) to start brainstorming alternatives, because this is what you'll get without them.

interdependency is wonderful an part of what made swg shine. BUT...even live kept it to a minimum an they had thousands per server. We have 170 on at any given time. You cannot tie a class identity to population. You will kill that identity.

Warchief · Aug 4, 2023

You're giving creature handlers less incentive to spend mega money on pets if they just wither away and have to be remade every so often. And I guarantee that we'll be charged millions more to clone the pet. I made a post a long time ago about giving creature handlers an interactive mechanic for creature breeding and lair curation along with the ability to tame the dangerous pets again. What if the CH takes a break for a while? The pet withers and dies and they're just out millions of creds, which they're probably not swimming in in the first place. Doesn't really make for a repeat customer, yea? If the pet is gonna die anyway, why not spend some time farming babies for a decent stat array instead of blowing millions one a complete 60 point pet? Just doesn't sound good to me. Instead of making the pets die, let the BE be able to alter or mutate stats to make it tankier, more ferocious, faster, that kind of thing. give it 65 in one stat at the cost of 55 in another. But making pets decay away is not the answer.

shintufelper · Aug 4, 2023

Warchief said:
You're giving creature handlers less incentive to spend mega money on pets if they just wither away and have to be remade every so often. And I guarantee that we'll be charged millions more to clone the pet. I made a post a long time ago about giving creature handlers an interactive mechanic for creature breeding and lair curation along with the ability to tame the dangerous pets again. What if the CH takes a break for a while? The pet withers and dies and they're just out millions of creds, which they're probably not swimming in in the first place. Doesn't really make for a repeat customer, yea? If the pet is gonna die anyway, why not spend some time farming babies for a decent stat array instead of blowing millions one a complete 60 point pet? Just doesn't sound good to me. Instead of making the pets die, let the BE be able to alter or mutate stats to make it tankier, more ferocious, faster, that kind of thing. give it 65 in one stat at the cost of 55 in another. But making pets decay away is not the answer.

Just to clarify here, as I didn’t make it clear in the initial post. When I said ‘pets age over time’ I meant ‘pets age over use time’. As for the cost, my general baseline cost range when I consider these things is 100-500k every 1-3 months of active play for the average user, but the exact tuning is up to the devs.

A farm simulator/animal husbandry style system does sound neat, though it sounds more like a CH system than a BE one. I’d be interested to see a separate PV on this if you ever flesh out the idea fully.

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Open Outdoors Artisan Creature Cloning and Aging to Make Bio-engineers More Useful

shintufelper

Aenith

Aconite

Development Lead

Aenith

Aconite

Development Lead

unfair2u

shintufelper

Aenith

Aenith

shintufelper

Aenith

shintufelper

elvismonkey

Aenith

DarthLovecraft

Aenith

DarthLovecraft

Aenith

Warchief

shintufelper