Manual sampling should not be disconnected

I like the fact that afk sampling isn't 'really' allowed. We have so many resources already that it is not feasible for someone to sell them on the market. We already have the boost to sampling the server gives us.

Allowing people to afk for them would really over saturate an already full market. Prices aren't that high for good resources. And, it isn't hard to make credits.

i am on Resto for the fact it is more laid back and {truthfully} not as afk friendly. Finding a compromise of maybe a dedicated way to sample at a premium rate in a shorter time I can agree with..allowing folks to loh in start hand sampling and walk away for hours at end..I will not support.

Down vote. This is not required.

Chewiejdh said:

I like the fact that afk sampling isn't 'really' allowed. We have so many resources already that it is not feasible for someone to sell them on the market. We already have the boost to sampling the server gives us.

Allowing people to afk for them would really over saturate an already full market. Prices aren't that high for good resources. And, it isn't hard to make credits.

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Prices are extremely high for certain server best resources though. Allowing afk sampling would just provide another way in for newer players to make some credits through sampling contacts which has a low barrier for entry, and for newer crafters to utilise mustafar resources themselves.

Mace said:

Prices are extremely high for certain server best resources though. Allowing afk sampling would just provide another way in for newer players to make some credits through sampling contacts which has a low barrier for entry, and for newer crafters to utilise mustafar resources themselves.

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These prices are high due to them being out of spawn forever now. These prices wouldnt change with allowing afk hand sampling. It would just make any future good/best resources worth a lot less to anyone(even new players) who sample them.

shintufelper said:

These prices are high due to them being out of spawn forever now. These prices wouldnt change with allowing afk hand sampling. It would just make any future good/best resources worth a lot less to anyone(even new players) who sample them.

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Exactly right.

High Quality spawns that are not available are a FINITE resource. Once the last of them are consumed, we will never see that specific resource again. That is why they're so expensive. Some of these high quality resources are known by name by high-level crafters. This is why I have to be really selective when crafting with these goods. I don't want to waste them.

AFK sampling will NEVER change this, and rightfully so. All-time greats should remain expensive.

There is nothing stopping newbie crafters from going to Musty now and hand sampling. Nothing is stopping them from utilizing the resources. Get a droid, and get out on the lava. What is stopping you?

Next, the complaint will be that droids should be given to all crafters so they can sample higher from level 1.

AFK sampling would literally change that to a degree though. Mustafar resources are generally better as the ranges on important stats are much narrower compared to others. If you were able to sample them more effectively they'd be more widely used for a variety of stuff and not just low quantity items.

All-time greats should remain expensive for specific named resources agree.

Nothing is stopping anyone now, who said it was? And who is complaining? The topic is about pros and cons of afk sampling. I don't see that the cons outweigh the pros I'm sorry if you disagree.

One of the reason sampling/resource contracts can be a money maker now is the amount of time/investment involved. For a player to sit at the keyboard and sample for an extended period of time requires an investment of time. There is an opportunity cost for that player. While they're kneeling on Musty they can't be doing other things which could make them credits. Therefore, the reward for the contract will need to help them cover that opportunity cost.

Allowing full-time AFK sampling will open the floodgates for any toon to go to Musty and sample while the person is at work. I could now flood the market with goods that cost me nothing in terms of commitment. If I can AFK while I'm at work, these resources have ZERO opportunity cost to me, and therefore I would be willing to sell them at a massively reduced rate to ensure a sale. This would crash the market, and render the newbie crafter wholly unable to sell any resources or goods to a reasonable extent.

As a player, why would I pay higher prices to someone for gear made using server best resources when I could simply find the seller being OK with making a 5% profit?

We all know this would happen.

I have an architect making Elite Harvies. With the selling price of the deeds out there, it is nearly impossible to make a reasonable profit percentage. I have to try to sell in bulk rather than sell one deed with a good margin. On top of that, though, there are those players out there who are trying to simply get a sale, and so they undercut the whole market. True, they do not last very long, but it drives down the overall asking price for the products. Now, my 5% margin has been reduced to 4.5% and is falling.

Simply pumping more goods and/or resources into a stable economy is going to negatively impact the delicate balance. It's a bigger picture than just 'I need ore resources'.

Just to be clear - it wouldn't impact crafting harvesters or I'd say the vast majority of crafted goods because you don't need mustafar resources to hit those caps because the resource requirements aren't very high or strict. You can throw a rock at any duralloy steel in the past year and it'll probably be good enough to carp harvs. A "flood" of mustafar steel, iron or ore isn't going to change the prices on those goods because those resources are readily available and regularly spawning.

It would definitely help in alleviating the res requirements on crafting a lot of BE equipment, particularly as those quantities are absolutely massive and have high requirements to cap.

It's also a bigger picture than just "I want more profit margins" - people won't stick around long-term if the barriers to entry make it so they can't compete because they haven't been on the server for 2Y+ and those barriers are ideologically driven rather than practical.

I know the harvies do not use those resources, it was an example of how people flooding a market with underpriced goods will tank the pricing. Then, players won't stick around because they cannot make any long-term business.

There are no barriers to entry currently. Nothing is stopping any new crafter from participating in the market the same way we all have. More resources doesn't lower the bar for entry.

Any new crafter, regardless of how many resources they can hand-sample, will not be able to compete with an established crafter with a reliable clientele.

Practically speaking, the servers that allow AFK sampling have seen inflation taking over.

This isn't 'theory' or some 'ideological' abstract conjecture. This is proven based on years of economic studies not just in this game but others as well.

The only other game, that I have played, with such a player-involved economy is EVE. They allow AFK farming in the high-quality resource areas, but you are at risk of attack always.

You want to AFK on Musty? You should generate hate or be TEF'd after a time.

There has to be some cost to the gatherer for the resources.

Mace said:

Just to be clear - it wouldn't impact crafting harvesters or I'd say the vast majority of crafted goods because you don't need mustafar resources to hit those caps because the resource requirements aren't very high or strict. You can throw a rock at any duralloy steel in the past year and it'll probably be good enough to carp harvs. A "flood" of mustafar steel, iron or ore isn't going to change the prices on those goods because those resources are readily available and regularly spawning.

It would definitely help in alleviating the res requirements on crafting a lot of BE equipment, particularly as those quantities are absolutely massive and have high requirements to cap.

It's also a bigger picture than just "I want more profit margins" - people won't stick around long-term if the barriers to entry make it so they can't compete because they haven't been on the server for 2Y+ and those barriers are ideologically driven rather than practical.

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As other new players have said:

I've played on another emu where macroing and multi-character log-ins were prevalent. That emu's economy is bloated with credits, making everything insanely expensive for a new player or a player who doesn't engage in AFK 'play'. One of the first things I noticed on Resto - and instantly warmed up to - was how easy and affordable it was to set up brand-new characters by playing the game normally.

The Restoration economy is a huge plus in its favor when someone is deciding between emus to play.

And this response

This is the healthiest server I have seen that isn't riddled with AFK junk loot campers or a slew of roasting sample bots on Mustafar. I disagree.

So this has been tried on other servers with a negative impact. Big time downvote.

Tyr said:

As other new players have said:

I've played on another emu where macroing and multi-character log-ins were prevalent. That emu's economy is bloated with credits, making everything insanely expensive for a new player or a player who doesn't engage in AFK 'play'. One of the first things I noticed on Resto - and instantly warmed up to - was how easy and affordable it was to set up brand-new characters by playing the game normally.

The Restoration economy is a huge plus in its favor when someone is deciding between emus to play.

And this response

This is the healthiest server I have seen that isn't riddled with AFK junk loot campers or a slew of roasting sample bots on Mustafar. I disagree.

So this has been tried on other servers with a negative impact. Big time downvote.

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Ok and that's what...two or three players? I don't think we should give much importance to random quotes from whoever, especially as the first doesn't actually relate to the topic at hand. I'm a returning player that would by most metrics be considered "new" to the server and totally disagree....

Chewiejdh said:

I know the harvies do not use those resources, it was an example of how people flooding a market with underpriced goods will tank the pricing. Then, players won't stick around because they cannot make any long-term business.

There are no barriers to entry currently. Nothing is stopping any new crafter from participating in the market the same way we all have. More resources doesn't lower the bar for entry.

Any new crafter, regardless of how many resources they can hand-sample, will not be able to compete with an established crafter with a reliable clientele.

Practically speaking, the servers that allow AFK sampling have seen inflation taking over.

Resources are plentiful and in over-abundance.​

Goods become de-valued, even the "server-best" resources are devalued.​

Players earn more money just running terminal missions than they would need to keep stocked with the best gear.​

Therefore, crafters cannot charge a fair rate, since everything will be uber-cheap.​

This isn't 'theory' or some 'ideological' abstract conjecture. This is proven based on years of economic studies not just in this game but others as well.

The only other game, that I have played, with such a player-involved economy is EVE. They allow AFK farming in the high-quality resource areas, but you are at risk of attack always.

You want to AFK on Musty? You should generate hate or be TEF'd after a time.

There has to be some cost to the gatherer for the resources.

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I don't think you are reading my posts but I don't think we'll ever agree in any event so it's all good.

Downvote. We don't need more afk tags. Devs have been pretty clear that you should not gain system generated loot/credits while afk. Docs are allowed because they are not credit generating, they are credit transfers, and they provide a service to others.

Mace said:

I don't think you are reading my posts but I don't think we'll ever agree in any event so it's all good.

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I am reading your posts, and I am responding with specific examples and using your idioms to show you my reasoning.
Several of us have given examples from our playstyles, other newcomer interviews, practical real-world examples, and general anecdotal evidence to show why we disagree.

If you can't see the connection between excessive resources being dumped into the market at virtually zero cost, and that market suffering from inflation and fatigue, then you aren't really looking at the whole picture.

Mace said:

Ok and that's what...two or three players? I don't think we should give much importance to random quotes from whoever, especially as the first doesn't actually relate to the topic at hand. I'm a returning player that would by most metrics be considered "new" to the server and totally disagree....

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And we should give importance to one whoever compared to to or 3 or 4 or however many there are here saying no? I get your point but this server is different and rightly so. You and I won't agree on this but we don't need to be like every other server and it is one reason I, and others, like this server.

Chewiejdh said:

I am reading your posts, and I am responding with specific examples and using your idioms to show you my reasoning.
Several of us have given examples from our playstyles, other newcomer interviews, practical real-world examples, and general anecdotal evidence to show why we disagree.

If you can't see the connection between excessive resources being dumped into the market at virtually zero cost, and that market suffering from inflation and fatigue, then you aren't really looking at the whole picture.

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Well I'm finding your points to be inconsistent and examples sometimes irrelevant...

Originally you said "We have so many resources already that it is not feasible for someone to sell them on the market." but you then said
"the servers that allow AFK sampling have seen inflation taking over" due to..."Resources are plentiful and in over-abundance." - so which is it? if we already have so many resources that it's not feasible to sell on this server them then using your logic we would have reached all those other points you highlighted? Which to my understanding hasn't happened...

"Goods become de-valued, even the "server-best" resources are devalued.
Players earn more money just running terminal missions than they would need to keep stocked with the best gear.
Therefore, crafters cannot charge a fair rate, since everything will be uber-cheap."

And then you have said that "This isn't 'theory' or some 'ideological' abstract conjecture" but it actually is because you are extrapolating what has happened on other servers to this one when there are vastly different variables as to why certain economies are bad. This server doesn't allow perma AFK mob farming, it hasn't had billions pumped into it by stim selling whilst totally afk via scripts, it doesn't have 5 character slots (3 logged in at once on some)...the list goes on. So it is actually theory to follow your logic path and assume the same would happen here under vastly different conditions.

You also mentioned "One of the reason sampling/resource contracts can be a money maker now is the amount of time/investment involved" which just to be clear also isn't true. The "investment" to sample at a decent level is literally xxx4. The fact is sampling is expensive to hire because its boring gameplay to do at the keyboard. Anyone that's doing it is multi-logged or tabbed out doing other stuff.

I actually don't care if they allow it AFK or not. But the resources should be more accessible by some means and whether that's through a new way or relaxing AFK rules then we all know which is less time consuming for devs to implement.

"The fact is sampling is expensive to hire "
poor players always be mad ........

We will just have to agree to disagree, then. I like the AFK rules here and how, usually, most of the AFK people are typically only away for a limited time.

I have given my reasons as to why I downvoted and disagree with the PV.

Resources are not 'inaccessible'. If you want the goods, you should have to earn them. Just running a macro, going to work, then coming back 8 hours later to a supply of high quality resources is simply generating credits without earning them.

Chewiejdh said:

We will just have to agree to disagree, then. I like the AFK rules here and how, usually, most of the AFK people are typically only away for a limited time.

I have given my reasons as to why I downvoted and disagree with the PV.

Resources are not 'inaccessible'. If you want the goods, you should have to earn them. Just running a macro, going to work, then coming back 8 hours later to a supply of high quality resources is simply generating credits without earning them.

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Agree 100% with this.