Open PVP GCW and JEDI

BigBear said:

After playing several weeks since jedi came out, here are some thoughts on the current state of PVP and GCW right now.

First, I feel PVP and GCW are way too dependent on Jedis for winning fights. They are currently OP. No other profession can compete with it. It’s the current meta for PVP. The team with the most jedi have a clear advantage. Not much you can do against a team of 5 jedis if you don’t have any in your team.
It seems there’s no point pvping with another profession if you can be a Jedi. It screws up the use of other professions unless being needed to activate some terminals for base bust. Also, it doesn’t encourage new players that are far from becoming a jedi doing pvp, if they get wiped by jedis all the time.
PVP is not balanced right now due to the fact that Jedi are OP versus other profession and due to uneven numbers of jedis on each faction.

Second, there’s not a ton of pvp players on resto already and those who are not jedi yet, are soon going to become one. Kind of obvious if you want to survive in pvp vs other op jedis.
Battlefields are dead, and people are leaving to play on other severs like Evolve for more balanced and fun pvp. I feel that Jedi will kill pvp on resto or will become a jedi only civil war in the future that only veteran player will participate, discouraging new player to do pvp.

The devs are already planning a big change in the gcw mechanic but here are some suggestions to balance jedi in pvp, gcw and also make more fun:

• One option would be to put a limit number of 2 jedi per faction that can be flagged at the same time. This way you can have more variety of professions pvping and more balances fights, that are not centered on the number of jedi you have on your team. This will prevent having 5 jedi in one team vs none for example. This could also get implemented in battlefields where jedi wouldn’t get a death timer. I miss battlefields!
• Another would be to put a limit of jedi logged on the server and make them rarer like they were supposed to be in the initial plan for resto. Again, this could balance fights but would affect all jedi, even those who do not pvp.
• Or a third would be to drastically nerf the jedi profession to a level slightly better than a melee profession, making it more of a melee toon with a robe and lightsaber. Their numbers won’t matter that much in group PVP and people won’t pvp that much with it if they are not as OP. This would imply changing all the visibility, death timer, bounties etc.. Basically NGE jedi with a long grind for those who waited 3 years for it. (I know people going to hate this one )

In other words, make them rarer in pvp or nerf them drastically to make pvp more balanced. My goal here is not to whine about jedi being OP, but to have a more balanced and fun PVP.

In my opinion, the first option would balance the current pvp the best if you want to keep the current jedi system.

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Let me know when you wanna chat about how we kill Imp jedi all the time with normal professions and have no issues with that.

BigBear said:

After playing several weeks since jedi came out, here are some thoughts on the current state of PVP and GCW right now.

First, I feel PVP and GCW are way too dependent on Jedis for winning fights. They are currently OP. No other profession can compete with it. It’s the current meta for PVP. The team with the most jedi have a clear advantage. Not much you can do against a team of 5 jedis if you don’t have any in your team.
It seems there’s no point pvping with another profession if you can be a Jedi. It screws up the use of other professions unless being needed to activate some terminals for base bust. Also, it doesn’t encourage new players that are far from becoming a jedi doing pvp, if they get wiped by jedis all the time.
PVP is not balanced right now due to the fact that Jedi are OP versus other profession and due to uneven numbers of jedis on each faction.

Second, there’s not a ton of pvp players on resto already and those who are not jedi yet, are soon going to become one. Kind of obvious if you want to survive in pvp vs other op jedis.
Battlefields are dead, and people are leaving to play on other severs like Evolve for more balanced and fun pvp. I feel that Jedi will kill pvp on resto or will become a jedi only civil war in the future that only veteran player will participate, discouraging new player to do pvp.

The devs are already planning a big change in the gcw mechanic but here are some suggestions to balance jedi in pvp, gcw and also make more fun:

• One option would be to put a limit number of 2 jedi per faction that can be flagged at the same time. This way you can have more variety of professions pvping and more balances fights, that are not centered on the number of jedi you have on your team. This will prevent having 5 jedi in one team vs none for example. This could also get implemented in battlefields where jedi wouldn’t get a death timer. I miss battlefields!
• Another would be to put a limit of jedi logged on the server and make them rarer like they were supposed to be in the initial plan for resto. Again, this could balance fights but would affect all jedi, even those who do not pvp.
• Or a third would be to drastically nerf the jedi profession to a level slightly better than a melee profession, making it more of a melee toon with a robe and lightsaber. Their numbers won’t matter that much in group PVP and people won’t pvp that much with it if they are not as OP. This would imply changing all the visibility, death timer, bounties etc.. Basically NGE jedi with a long grind for those who waited 3 years for it. (I know people going to hate this one )

In other words, make them rarer in pvp or nerf them drastically to make pvp more balanced. My goal here is not to whine about jedi being OP, but to have a more balanced and fun PVP.

In my opinion, the first option would balance the current pvp the best if you want to keep the current jedi system.

Click to expand...

This is just watching history repeat itself yet again , the same dilemma Jedi should be rare and OP yet everyone wants a Jedi even if you dont want to pvp , after that calls to nerf Jedi to the ground till is another regular profession, if players wanted to play NGE Jedi im sure they could have gone to Legends long time ago , couple of ideas to maybe fix the issue
- Limit the number of Jedi that can go SF to like 3-4 per planet for each faction
- Remove Jedi completely from the GCW, if you want to pvp with a Jedi then you pvp against other Jedi only
the biggest issue i gather is first of all the pvp population is super low , the number of players that consent to pvp is again small add to that one side has more Jedi with more skill then it leads to the other side not wanting to pvp because nobody finds getting wiped over and over fun

jcan0918 said:

This is just watching history repeat itself yet again , the same dilemma Jedi should be rare and OP yet everyone wants a Jedi even if you dont want to pvp , after that calls to nerf Jedi to the ground till is another regular profession, if players wanted to play NGE Jedi im sure they could have gone to Legends long time ago , couple of ideas to maybe fix the issue
- Limit the number of Jedi that can go SF to like 3-4 per planet for each faction
- Remove Jedi completely from the GCW, if you want to pvp with a Jedi then you pvp against other Jedi only
the biggest issue i gather is first of all the pvp population is super low , the number of players that consent to pvp is again small add to that one side has more Jedi with more skill then it leads to the other side not wanting to pvp because nobody finds getting wiped over and over fun

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I hope you have a jedi and are saying these things.

I think a balance between Jedi and Non-Jedi is required. and at the same time encourage those who do not play PvP to do so. I miss those invasions of 20 vs 20 or more... anyone could win. Now I have seen a Jedi vs 5 and they don't beat him. The game, healthy and fun, must prevail so that those of us who are active, plus those who arrive, remain playing in balance. the balance of force. I know that the SWGR staff will find that right balance.

Rawlas said:

I hope you have a jedi and are saying these things.

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i do but even if i didnt so what , its the same arguments from almost 20 years ago
-Jedi should be OP
-Jedi should be rare
-Everyone wants to be a Jedi , some ppl even think they're entitled to a jedi just because they have not incited in over 2 yrs
-Nerf Jedi so normal players can have a chance
-Nerf Jedi so BH can solo them
-GCW sucks because its a glowstick party
-The group with the most Jedi usually wins
i can go on and on

jcan0918 said:

i do but even if i didnt so what , its the same arguments from almost 20 years ago
-Jedi should be OP
-Jedi should be rare
-Everyone wants to be a Jedi , some ppl even think they're entitled to a jedi just because they have not incited in over 2 yrs
-Nerf Jedi so normal players can have a chance
-Nerf Jedi so BH can solo them
-GCW sucks because its a glowstick party
-The group with the most Jedi usually wins
i can go on and on

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ONCE AGAIN. If you are saying normal people dont have a chance vs jedi. How have jedi been getting BHed? Or how are Jedi getting ghosted so often on both sides.

Rawlas said:

ONCE AGAIN. If you are saying normal people dont have a chance vs jedi. How have jedi been getting BHed?

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im not the one advocating to nerf anything , all im saying those are the arguments that were used back in the LIVE version of the game and are now resurfacing again given this PV and the overall general attitude towards Jedi right now, perhaps the question should be directed at the person who made this PV , just saying

jcan0918 said:

im not the one advocating to nerf anything , all im saying those are the arguments that were used back in the LIVE version of the game and are now resurfacing again given this PV and the overall general attitude towards Jedi right now, perhaps the question should be directed at the person who made this PV , just saying

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OK THEN I LOVE YOU.

Generally speaking, normal professions *do* have a chance against Jedi.

You have to be smart about it, and the higher skill/better gear that the jedi has the less margin of error.

Jedi are extremely vulnerable to burst damage, especially with most Jedi builds relying on Force Armor. I have solo'd Jedi when BHing by staying alive using foods, stims, etc, and kiting the jedi until their force gets too low and their abilities fall off. But you have to be good with your rotation, build, and foods. Reducing Jedi to be on par with the other professions is just asking for the NGE profession. Jedi should be powerful here, with the trade off being the risk of getting ghosted (which is why I advocate for increasing ghost timers so that dying has greater consequence, but that is a different discussion).

A group that is focusing on a Jedi with Force Armor will quickly deplete the Jedi's force meter, and make that Jedi vulnerable to immediate ghosting. Alternatively, dazing a Jedi can ruin the rest of the group; Jedi have no area heal and groups with too many Jedi can have their normies picked off by focusing fire on the normies. Once the normies are out of the way, then you can refocus the jedi. But this only works if your group is built to be able to tank the jedi, which again, requires having proper builds and gear with good execution of foods and abilities.

There are some tweaks to jedi that still need to be made (and are being made over time), but at this point imposing online/SF limits wouldn't solve the problems.

"nerf Jedi so BH can solo them"
Comments like that are so blindly ignorant. 5 BH's can hunt a Jedi so how is that useful feedback, and then also what is the answer to the other side of the fence even if it was ?

A typical unknown , random BH in the Star Wars universe shouldn't be able to solo a Jedi. You aint Jango Fett.

in responce to the OP:
X number of Jedi can do X thing

There is no way to gate that kind of behaviour in the open world element of a sandbox game. What if there are 2 Imperial SF Jedi on Talus and then a third one comes in SF. Do they get flagged down? are they denied travel ?
You can only gate that in controlled instancing, which even then isn't really useful.

Melee BH's please

BH teffing jedi in a group fight is a fairly effective tool for normies to use. But after years of crying its getting changed in this upcoming patch at the worst time imo.

osmopema said:

I think a balance between Jedi and Non-Jedi is required. and at the same time encourage those who do not play PvP to do so. I miss those invasions of 20 vs 20 or more... anyone could win. Now I have seen a Jedi vs 5 and they don't beat him. The game, healthy and fun, must prevail so that those of us who are active, plus those who arrive, remain playing in balance. the balance of force. I know that the SWGR staff will find that right balance.

Click to expand...

Discord Voicechat: "Yeah we can't win, we are just not gonna flag up at all today guys sorry."

Felixx said:

Melee BH's please

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Make it so you only need 3xxx BH instead of Master and I could see it happening.

Jedi is the class with the highest skill cap in the game so a very skilled player with jedi can turn the tides even more than as a normie, but as a general fact jedi are dying easier and quicker than normies atm so i feel like the OP just doesnt know how to counter jedi, plus the exploited mustafar item everyone has been using to gutter jedi's dmg. Teams stacking jedi only have a lot of drawbacks like the lack of aoe heals or aoe dmg/ other debuffs, same as if your pvp comp was spamming chs, you would have a lot of burst potential and single target dmg but you lack many other things. About the faction imbalance i dont think the number of jedi is that different at all, it is just a matter or certain people not wanting to use their jedi on pvp because they are afraid of being ghosted, and of course the skill gap between both faction jedi players.

Kazhar said:

Jedi is the class with the highest skill cap in the game so a very skilled player with jedi can turn the tides even more than as a normie, but as a general fact jedi are dying easier and quicker than normies atm so i feel like the OP just doesnt know how to counter jedi, plus the exploited mustafar item everyone has been using to gutter jedi's dmg. Teams stacking jedi only have a lot of drawbacks like the lack of aoe heals or aoe dmg/ other debuffs, same as if your pvp comp was spamming chs, you would have a lot of burst potential and single target dmg but you lack many other things. About the faction imbalance i dont think the number of jedi is that different at all, it is just a matter or certain people not wanting to use their jedi on pvp because they are afraid of being ghosted, and of course the skill gap between both faction jedi players.

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I generally hate this argument, because it feels like you never actually fought a Jedi who has so much defense they generally avoid 90% of attacks, which have to land to get DoTs on in the first place, so the spamming AOEs which is what I hear constantly doesn't really work that well especially considering how low of accuracy Commando Weapons are compared to other weapons. I *know* you have had to, you play a BH, but have you killed one who was prepared for you and can you without the TeF? Possibly, maybe..

If this strategy was so "good", how come all the commando players I know stopped playing commando (and nobody had an issue before and I have no issues now fighting commandos) all go to play Jedi? It's like in league where everyone rolls up the new OP hero and people on forums say its fine when it clearly isn't.

Additionally, the Jedi could simply put on "Fire Absorption" tapes and use some food and significantly reduce fire damage. Unlike every other player, they don't need to pay the Healing Potency tax to play the game, and their tax of 4xxx healer is significantly less of a tax and provides more and better healing. The Entertainer buff also reduces it significantly by another 20%.

This is what I don't get about these stupid arguments, most Jedi skills are just vastly better versions of regular skills, with little investment to them compared to normies so you can have tons of combinations and variations.

The best way to kill Jedi right now will be Breaching them, than hitting them with a 1 shot mechanic (which I don't like either) immediately after to get rid of them when their buffs are down, because their buffs are just so much better then regular professions its silly.

It's also silly to me they are rocking more armor than precu almost at 95%, they only really need xx4x Defender, and x4xx Enhancement. Its funny someone wearing robes has double the % of protection of someone wearing full heavy plate.

Even if you or others tell me to "learn to play", "get good", and "get better gear" I doubt it will change the situation because its hard to see from a certain prospective. I and many others have no issues killing non-Jedi, at least I haven't, compared to fighting a normie, fighting a Jedi is like fighting a raid boss from my experience. I am still pretty upset I spent so much on useless gear, but whatever I will just grind credits and do mostly space stuff until the meta change.

"Oh well, just use acid and different dots!" Yeah; that 96 damage (this is with 0 absorption too!) every 3 seconds stacking up slowly by 30 points per stack is really going to hamper the 2000 heal and 600 infusion ticks, honestly, get real. I spent hours of testing all of this stuff, and even if you say or scream "white room!"; that doesn't change the raw amount of time and stacks it would take to dampen a Jedi, because they are just that strong.

This isn't even me saying to nerf Jedi, just PLEASE acknowledge their strength.

I have group BH'd (3-5 BHs) many PvP capable jedi on the server. Both Rebs not in our guild (DEATH) and pretty much all of the imps.
I've only had the group wipe once, and that was hunting with a group not in my guild that I usually don't play with and that had a bad comp.
It's basically 65% we kill the jedi; or 35% they get away and logout.
Jedi is strong, but group BHing with competent players and composition has shown to be either a ghost sentence or a retreat and logout.

TEF changes that are on the Test Center to the stupid NPCs that spawn ruining PvP are needed.
But BH TEF is actually a good mechanic to keep the other factions Jedi in check.
The new changes on TC with BH TEF are probably gonna turn out to be very bad for the game.
Rebs bullying imp Jedi even harder with our SF jedi heal and battle med bots during bounties.