Not Implemented - Remove Creature Taming ability from Creature Handlers | Star Wars Galaxies Restoration

Not Implemented Remove Creature Taming ability from Creature Handlers

This idea/suggestion has been flagged as Not Implemented because of a lack of popularity, lack of interest, lack of feasibility, or other determination by the Development Team, so the suggestion will not be implemented. Once a suggestion has been flagged this way, the decision is final. Although the issue may be raised again in the future after a six month cooldown. A response explanation from the Development Team can be found in the thread.
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Proposal
Remove the Creature Taming mechanic from the game so pets and the vast majority of mounts can only be obtained from Bio Engineers.
Justification
The change to Creature Handlers will be minimal - They will no longer be able to tame creatures for use and or resale.

The change to Bio Engineers and the economy will be massive - This will open up an entirely new market for Bio Engineers which will increase the demand for Bio Engineers and the components they use, which will benefit the economy massively.
Motivation
Creature Handlers being able to tame their own pets and sell pet eggs takes a large chunk of the market from Bio Engineers who put in alot more effort, time and credits into making pets.

As a result, Bio Engineers are limited to making high end capped pets and mutations unobtainable through taming, which drives up the price of pets and drastically limits their usefulness as a crafting/trading profession.
CU vs NGE

As Bio Engineer for pet making uses the NGE Beastmaster system to create pet eggs, the complexity of this system, the number of professions which contibute to the entire process and the time / credit sync into generating a single pet egg was designed on the sole function that pets could ONLY be obtained via a BeastMaster (or in this case Bio Engineer). As a Creature Handler on R3, a single click on a radial dial which negates all the time, work, effort and entire point why BeastMaster was implemented in the first place.
In NGE, having a pet was not required to level up the skills in order to be able to use a pet unlike R3. NGE XP was converted into expertise points which you could allocate where you wanted in your given profession meaning you could level up as a Medic and then use a pet without even having to own one previously. On R3, the CU skill box profession progression requires players to own a pet at Novice Creature Handler. So with Creature Handlers taming their own pets or selling tamed pets to other new Creature Handlers, this takes away a selling market from Bio Engineers which again negates all the time, work, effort and entire point why BeastMaster was implemented in the first place.

Economy

As mentioned above, Creature Taming limits Bio Engineers to make high end and mutated pets for sale which should not their sole function when using the CU system of levelling Creature Handler.
Taming has replaced the requirement for BEs to make starter / mid tier pets and mounts. As a result, only top end enzymes are currently required by Bio Engineers to make the pets they make. All the Isomerase enzymes looted in spin groups that cannot be used in high end pets just get deleted because there is no use for them. If taming was removed, players could contributute towards the ecomony and earn them some credits from all those Isomerase enzymes looted in the dozens instead of mass deleting them, because there would be a demand for low end Isomerases, Lyases and Hydrolases.
The viability of spin groups on R3 and having the BeastMaster system in place to create pets has already devalused the price of Isomerase enzymes, so it would help if more of the enzymes that were looted could be sold and not deleted on mass which while players curse the fact that /toggleEnzymeLoot isnt a valid command, yet.

Multiple professions are required to make pets. Scouts/Rangers, Droid Engineers, Architects and Artisans are all required to make components and consumables for Bio Engineers. Consumables that use up a very large amount of resources. For every pet that is tamed with a simple click of a radial dial, the use of each of these professions is diminished because their contribution towards the Bio Engineer market is extremely limited.
If Creature Taming were removed, there would be a much higher demand for pets, which leads to a much higher demand for Bio Engineers who require the services of these professions to provide the components necessary to make their pets. This will benefit the economy of those specific professions and the server economy as a whole. With Restoration 3 limiting the current number of available characters to 3, it will be even harder to become a 'self sufficient' Bio Engineer by having all these professions under one account which again, will increase the demand for these professions to supply.

Removing Creature Taming will create a more competitive market, making pet prices a lot more affordable for the consumer. Creature Handlers are making free money with their single radial dial click to tame a creature then put it up for sale, whereas Bio Engineers need to spend alot more time and credits to even get a set up to make a pet, this is before RNG takes over which could scupper the entire process of getting suitable enzymes for use - all before a pet is even created.

Player Base

I've seen lots of players come and try the Bio Engineer profession, but because of the work that is involved and the lack of market in selling pets, they change profession, or leave for another NGE server where they have a Beastmaster already or where the system is balanced. All this because the market is not there for Bio Engineers to sell pets. Creature Handler is the second most popular combat profession - the BE market should be reflecting this.
New BEs should be coming in and learning the process practically and build to grow bigger and better pets as they progress. With the way the current system is at the moment with Creature Taming, the majority are getting put off because with the current market, their only option is to make high end capped pets before they even know what a nutrient slider does.

I appreciate Creature Taming was implemented because taming was present in the CU, but as we use the NGE mechanic for pet making, having these two systems coincide creates large inconsistencies with the Bio Engineer profession and its whole process of making pets. Although this is unlikely to be a popular Player Voice, it has to be said as the profession cannot thrive under the current system.
If there is no change to the current ways, Bio Engineer will remain in its box only to be used by the small number of people can afford the current pet prices while Architects, Artisans, Droid Engineers and Scouts/Rangers have their potential contributions towards the ecomony limited.
 
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Big agree as CH and BE too .. and it's just a click for devs to make it happen. On the other side, some pets needs extracted DNA.. like graul (rancor big no, stay just mutated) and bolotaur and all for kashyyyk and mustafar pets
 
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Sound arguments but don't you think that removing taming entirely will make the barrier to entry for Creature Handler too high? Right now starter weapons are ~5k for the lowest level and ~50k for CL54 ones, would it be viable for Bio Engineers to create and sell starter pets for around that price range?

Also, taming is a pretty important part of Creature Handlers' identity, so perhaps a compromise where tamed pets have their stats capped low (1-2 points max per stat), and/or remove the ability to create mounts from tamed eggs.
 
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This is the issue of why the current beastmaster system doesn’t work well with the CU system, because you NEED a pet to level CH.
There is more to gain from removing taming and having BEs make starter pets for a cheaper price than to keep taming in and have it affect everything that I have previously mentioned.

I thought about limiting the creatures that could be tamed, or limiting the stats, but the main issue is that BEs currently only have a use for high end pets. If you don’t completely remove taming, CHs would still use whatever is limited, which wouldn’t address the issues raised.
 
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Sound arguments but don't you think that removing taming entirely will make the barrier to entry for Creature Handler too high? Right now starter weapons are ~5k for the lowest level and ~50k for CL54 ones, would it be viable for Bio Engineers to create and sell starter pets for around that price range?

Also, taming is a pretty important part of Creature Handlers' identity, so perhaps a compromise where tamed pets have their stats capped low (1-2 points max per stat), and/or remove the ability to create mounts from tamed eggs.
if there were a purpose i could throw "low" hydros i cant use for 60pts, mid range layse enzymes and whatever isos i normally get that are probably in the low to mid 80's together real quick for starter pets but why would i do that when a CH could just get missions or run around until they find a baby. Which is the problem being addressed.
 
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if there were a purpose i could throw "low" hydros i cant use for 60pts, mid range layse enzymes and whatever isos i normally get that are probably in the low to mid 80's together real quick for starter pets but why would i do that when a CH could just get missions or run around until they find a baby. Which is the problem being addressed.
What I meant was that if taming was removed, would BEs be able to make starter pets at a cheap enough price so that new players aren't gatekept from playing CH.
 
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No, BE should be for the top end combat pets and unique mounts, this is already a watered down enough version of what creature handler used to be.

Not sure how current CH is ‘watered down’. NGE CH is the most versatile version of CH with multiple pet roles and different abilities. But each to their own.
 
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I can't support this.

I just don't think removing taming from CH is a good idea. I think a better solution would be to remove CHs getting an egg and just revert back to regular taming. Tamed creatures could be slightly weaker than BE ones which would solve the issue without having to take something away from CH. Half of the fun of being a CH is running around in the wild and looking for new pets to tame.
 
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I can't support this.

I just don't think removing taming from CH is a good idea. I think a better solution would be to remove CHs getting an egg and just revert back to regular taming. Tamed creatures could be slightly weaker than BE ones which would solve the issue without having to take something away from CH. Half of the fun of being a CH is running around in the wild and looking for new pets to tame.
I agree that taming is a great mechanic for CHs, but the issue is it deeply effects the BE profession and every other profession that is used in the process.
Unfortunately this problem runs deeper than CHs being disgruntled because it would limit their immersion as a CH.

I don’t expect taming to be removed, but I wanted to voice it as the server economy and a number of professions would be better off without it.
 
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How many 60pt pets have you been able to tame so far? How about Rancors? Acklay?
Why would anyone ever buy a ship part from a shipwright, when all they need to do is get a starter ship and start looting. Remove space loot.
Why would anyone ever buy a piece of clothe or a weapon when they just drop of mobs? Remove loot drops.

It takes time to find a baby of the pet that you want, and there is no guaranty that you end up with a good pet once you manage to find one and tame it and that is part of the fun.

If you want to enhance the BE experience, do it without hurting the CH experience and ask for something which benefits us all. Loyalty boosters and the ability to buy pet abilities. CH can sell you pet abilities which they have learned, and you can do a lengthy craft that requires recourses only combat classes can obtain and sell those abilities right back to the CH who don't want to spend days getting BFF and week trying to learn a top tier pet ability.
 
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How many 60pt pets have you been able to tame so far? How about Rancors? Acklay?
Why would anyone ever buy a ship part from a shipwright, when all they need to do is get a starter ship and start looting. Remove space loot.
Why would anyone ever buy a piece of clothe or a weapon when they just drop of mobs? Remove loot drops.

It takes time to find a baby of the pet that you want, and there is no guaranty that you end up with a good pet once you manage to find one and tame it and that is part of the fun.

If you want to enhance the BE experience, do it without hurting the CH experience and ask for something which benefits us all. Loyalty boosters and the ability to buy pet abilities. CH can sell you pet abilities which they have learned, and you can do a lengthy craft that requires recourses only combat classes can obtain and sell those abilities right back to the CH who don't want to spend days getting BFF and week trying to learn a top tier pet ability.

I appreciate CHs dont want to be boxed out by having taming removed, but the issue I feel is much bigger than CHs not being able to tame, and unfortunately it doesnt affect just BEs.

Like I said, I dont expect it to be popular, or even implemented. Im just raising the fact (not opinion) that there are inconsistencies with both taming and NGE Beastmaster (pet making) coinciding. Theres a reason taming was removed in NGE Beastmaster and having it exist with taming messes up the entire system.

It would be interesting to get an opinion from players who understand the BE process and have invested time and money into BE, instead of just CHs who just see the one dimensional side of creature taming.
 
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I appreciate CHs dont want to be boxed out by having taming removed, but the issue I feel is much bigger than CHs not being able to tame, and unfortunately it doesnt affect just BEs.

Like I said, I dont expect it to be popular, or even implemented. Im just raising the fact (not opinion) that there are inconsistencies with both taming and NGE Beastmaster (pet making) coinciding. Theres a reason taming was removed in NGE Beastmaster and having it exist with taming messes up the entire system.

It would be interesting to get an opinion from players who understand the BE process and have invested time and money into BE, instead of just CHs who just see the one dimensional side of creature taming.
I stand by what I said previously- all you need to do is take eggs away from CH and just give them the "tame" ability and when they tame something they just get that creature instead of an egg. It solves the issue entirely without taking something away from CH.
 
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I stand by what I said previously- all you need to do is take eggs away from CH and just give them the "tame" ability and when they tame something they just get that creature instead of an egg. It solves the issue entirely without taking something away from CH.
The fact that whether it is an egg or live creature that is tamed is irrelevant.
The CH is still getting a pet to use without needing the services of a BE.
 
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yeah taming mixed with the NGE beast master just makes easily 90% of iso and layse enzymes worthless as the only pets BE can really market are 60pt and while it does take time for a CH to find and tame something its still less time than it would take to incubate something with BE not even considering the quality
 
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who is going to regulate prices of be pets, who is going to force be to make low level /point pets ? what will the cap be on the price of a 60 point pet? what b.e. will make pets that will make them almost no credits due to parts need to craft low level pets ? creature handlers do collect eggs and often turn them to mounts or even holos or are you suggesting this ability goes to b.e as well?
 
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who is going to regulate prices of be pets,
The prices will be set by BEs initially and then the market or demand will dictate fluctuation of cost, as with any item that is sold.

who is going to force be to make low level /point pets ?
No one is going to force BEs to make low point pets, but starter pets are a great entry point for new BEs learning the profession, as there is alot to get your head around as a new BE. I have no issue making low level pets, there is just no point doing it currently because the same thing can be done with alot less hassle by a CH who tames.

what will the cap be on the price of a 60 point pet?
Less than what they are now. More demand for pets means an incread in BEs which will create a competitive market, which benefits the consumer.

what b.e. will make pets that will make them almost no credits due to parts need to craft low level pets ?
Low level pets are a great entry point for new BEs learning the profession, as there is alot to get your head around as a new BE. I have no issue making low level pets, there is just no point doing it currently because the same thing can be done with alot less hassle by a CH who tames.

creature handlers do collect eggs and often turn them to mounts or even holos or are you suggesting this ability goes to b.e as well?
If taming is removed, eggs would be purchased from BEs, but the creation of a mount and holo beast would stay with CH.
 
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