Open Artisan Zero Maintenance on a harvester and it's impact

Grogar · Feb 24, 2022

Due to the real world getting in the way, I realised last night that I'd not emptied a harvester or topped up it's maintenance. The in-game message got generated at 7am, when I was at work. When I did log in, the harvester was damaged and the hopper empty. Completely accept that this is a fault on my part - I forgot that when maintenance runs out that the structure becomes damaged, however having the hopper emptying entirely as well as repair bill feels like a complete kick in the teeth, especially when the in-game mail didn't even give me 24 hours notice about this.

dharck · Feb 24, 2022

also remove the (monetary) prerequisite to remove the structure in my opinion

BuddyHightower · Feb 24, 2022

Also add email notification when resource shifts and is no longer being extracted.

Yarr · Feb 24, 2022

dharck said:
also remove the (monetary) prerequisite to remove the structure in my opinion

I believe the cost to redeed is a good thing. Credit sinks are a good thing.

Yarr · Feb 24, 2022

We also have an issue if hopper hits 100% I have found power drops to zero. There is something funky going on with harvesters for sure with power/hoppers/maintenance

Yarr · Feb 25, 2022

yep, been so busy i forgot about 4 harvesters I had down. 2 were damaged. 0 in hopper as well. This shouldn't be a thing.

Grogar · Feb 25, 2022

Yarr said:
I believe the cost to redeed is a good thing. Credit sinks are a good thing.

Yes and no. My issue with the current redeed cost is that it's an arbitrary single fee (that I feel is pretty high considering they're a temporary structure). It doesn't vary depending upon how long the harvester has been down or the amount of resources gathered, it's just a "aha, you want your harvester back, give us X credits!". As a game mechanic, it feels really bad and is compounded by the fact that we have no idea how long a resource spawn actually has left - you may put down a harvester and only get a days worth harvesting before having to redeed and move it. We also do pay a maintenance fee to run harvesters (in addition to power), so you've arguably a credit sink baked into them already.

ThunderVamp · Feb 25, 2022

Grogar said:
Yes and no. My issue with the current redeed cost is that it's an arbitrary single fee (that I feel is pretty high considering they're a temporary structure). It doesn't vary depending upon how long the harvester has been down or the amount of resources gathered, it's just a "aha, you want your harvester back, give us X credits!". As a game mechanic, it feels really bad and is compounded by the fact that we have no idea how long a resource spawn actually has left - you may put down a harvester and only get a days worth harvesting before having to redeed and move it. We also do pay a maintenance fee to run harvesters (in addition to power), so you've arguably a credit sink baked into them already.

I agree credit sinks area good idea, and don't really have a problem paying to redeed the harvesters. While it could be steep, it's not really too bad. I wish there was just a system that said "You have extra maint in your harvesters and that doesn;t carry over, so that's what will be used to redeed and that's it, but then you'll have the crafters doing the math for how long they expect a spawn to last and doing their damnedest to time it so there's practically nothing left when spawn dies to pay as little as possible. I know I would.

It does also bring to mind though, that excess maint in a harvester when you redeed it should remain on it, not be lost like it is now.

Excess power stays, why wouldn't the excess maintenance?

unfair2u · Feb 25, 2022

ThunderVamp said:
I agree credit sinks area good idea, and don't really have a problem paying to redeed the harvesters. While it could be steep, it's not really too bad. I wish there was just a system that said "You have extra maint in your harvesters and that doesn;t carry over, so that's what will be used to redeed and that's it, but then you'll have the crafters doing the math for how long they expect a spawn to last and doing their damnedest to time it so there's practically nothing left when spawn dies to pay as little as possible. I know I would.

It does also bring to mind though, that excess maint in a harvester when you redeed it should remain on it, not be lost like it is now.

Excess power stays, why wouldn't the excess maintenance?

pretty sure its a bug where the redeed cost is being charged twice so if you have excess maint on a heavy over 9k then it should stay and tbh i already let my maint get low and pay them up to 4.5k when i redeed just to prevent the loss

ThunderVamp · Feb 25, 2022

unfair2u said:
pretty sure its a bug where the redeed cost is being charged twice so if you have excess maint on a heavy over 9k then it should stay and tbh i already let my maint get low and pay them up to 4.5k when i redeed just to prevent the loss

I do the same because any excess just disappears anyway. Didn;t know it was a bug, I thought I recalled live doing the same thing.

unfair2u · Feb 25, 2022

ThunderVamp said:
I do the same because any excess just disappears anyway. Didn;t know it was a bug, I thought I recalled live doing the same thing.

yeah id consider the excess maint loss and the resource dump when maint or power empties more likely to be bugs than anything else. ran a quick experiment on this and pretty sure Yarr has prior where you drop a harv pay a little over double the redeed and the little over will stay

ThunderVamp · Feb 25, 2022

unfair2u said:
yeah id consider the excess maint loss and the resource dump when maint or power empties more likely to be bugs than anything else. ran a quick experiment on this and pretty sure Yarr has prior where you drop a harv pay a little over double the redeed and the little over will stay

Definitely sounds like a bug then

Drueric · Feb 25, 2022

Grogar said:
Yes and no. My issue with the current redeed cost is that it's an arbitrary single fee (that I feel is pretty high considering they're a temporary structure). It doesn't vary depending upon how long the harvester has been down or the amount of resources gathered, it's just a "aha, you want your harvester back, give us X credits!". As a game mechanic, it feels really bad and is compounded by the fact that we have no idea how long a resource spawn actually has left - you may put down a harvester and only get a days worth harvesting before having to redeed and move it. We also do pay a maintenance fee to run harvesters (in addition to power), so you've arguably a credit sink baked into them already.

I believe this is simulating the manual labor cost of taking a harvester apart and putting it back in its box. Its free to place it though. No change to this money sink should be added to this proposal.

Recovering resources from a broken harvester - Yes.
More event notifications for harvesters - Yes.
Free harvester redeed - No.

I would like to add though, that excess maintenence paid into the harvester either be refunded upon redeed, or stay with the harvester like power does. That is, anything over the redeed cost. If the redeed would cost 3000, and the harvester currently has 4000 in it, redeeding would refund you 1000, or simply remain in the maintenence pool just like power does.

And while we are at it, allow money to be retrieved from house maintenence pool as well, like it used to.

Grogar · Feb 28, 2022

Drueric said:
I believe this is simulating the manual labor cost of taking a harvester apart and putting it back in its box. Its free to place it though. No change to this money sink should be added to this proposal.

Recovering resources from a broken harvester - Yes.
More event notifications for harvesters - Yes.
Free harvester redeed - No.

I would like to add though, that excess maintenence paid into the harvester either be refunded upon redeed, or stay with the harvester like power does. That is, anything over the redeed cost. If the redeed would cost 3000, and the harvester currently has 4000 in it, redeeding would refund you 1000, or simply remain in the maintenence pool just like power does.

And while we are at it, allow money to be retrieved from house maintenence pool as well, like it used to.

I'd be more in favour of a variable redeed cost, so something placed for < 24 hours costing less than longer placed items. I don't know if the date the structure was placed is something that's stored, so this might not even be possible.

Ultimately for me as a player the most important element is how the game feels to play. The items I put in my proposal are the items that I feel are the most unfriendly and least intuitive. The way maintenance works could be worth raising as it's own PV because there are quite a few differing views on it.

juspar · Mar 3, 2022

ThunderVamp said:
I agree credit sinks area good idea, and don't really have a problem paying to redeed the harvesters. While it could be steep, it's not really too bad. I wish there was just a system that said "You have extra maint in your harvesters and that doesn;t carry over, so that's what will be used to redeed and that's it, but then you'll have the crafters doing the math for how long they expect a spawn to last and doing their damnedest to time it so there's practically nothing left when spawn dies to pay as little as possible. I know I would.

It does also bring to mind though, that excess maint in a harvester when you redeed it should remain on it, not be lost like it is now.

Excess power stays, why wouldn't the excess maintenance?

The Redeed fee is 4500 minimum, 9000 max (on a heavy). Anything over 9000 does stay.

juspar · Mar 3, 2022

I like the idea of a loss over time of resources in a damaged harvester. Letting it go to zero and stop working, and have to pay for repairs is a penalty. The total loss of resources is a massive and I think unintended penalty.

ICY1977 · Mar 3, 2022

Don’t let your harvesters hit 0 maintenance I have no problem with the penalty of losing everything if it hits 0

juspar · Mar 11, 2022

ICY1977 said:
Don’t let your harvesters hit 0 maintenance I have no problem with the penalty of losing everything if it hits 0

I reckon thats a totally reasonable opinion. I'd hate to have a RL situation that unexpected stopped me logging in for 3 days and end up losing a full spawns worth of resources across all my harvies at the same time.

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Open Artisan Zero Maintenance on a harvester and it's impact

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