Not Implemented Align neutrals to match faction standards for staging up and down from Combatant/Special Forces states.

abraxas said:

How does flagging down and running away make any difference? It results in the same thing. It's not like we can flag down and flip factions quickly.

Click to expand...

You're literally arguing against a design pillar almost every MMORPG ever has used with regard to PvP. Because devs have figured out a long time ago not including PvP flagging restrictions leads to flagging abuse.

You're going to have to come up with something a lot better to convince me that flagging timers shouldn't be consistent to avoid abuse. Otherwise, everything you've presented is just noise.

Echoing similar thoughts here amidst the noise, these seem like relatively reasonable changes to the systems at hand. While I can understand that some might be concerned that these changes would effectively do away with the ‘upsides’ of playing neutral, that is not sufficient justification in itself to vote against changes, if the status-quo as it stands provides an advantage to neutral players with the timers. Of all the recommendations, I think that is the one that needs to be addressed the most.

RogerDabbit said:

You're literally arguing against a design pillar almost every MMORPG ever has used with regard to PvP. Because devs have figured out a long time ago not including PvP flagging restrictions leads to flagging abuse.

You're going to have to come up with something a lot better to convince me that flagging timers shouldn't be consistent to avoid abuse. Otherwise, everything you've presented is just noise.

Click to expand...

Do you actually PVP?

abraxas said:

Do you actually PVP?

Click to expand...

Yes. Do you have an actual point to add, or are you going to continue with the red herrings because there's not much else to say about the actual topic at hand that wasn't said already by the OP and Remis?

There's need to be something given to neutral players for me to consider this a good suggestion.

The words "abuse" and "exploit" get thrown around way too liberally on this game, especially when referring to this specific group of players.

RoHRemis said:

There's need to be something given to neutral players for me to consider this a good suggestion.

The words "abuse" and "exploit" get thrown around way too liberally on this game, especially when referring to this specific group of players.

Click to expand...

That would be amenable to me in this situation.

I've already posted on the kill count thread that that change would have my support if this one goes through, because the goal here (for me) is primarily consistency with a dash of encouraging players to join a GCW faction.

Credit payouts for merc work, for example, could be a compromise pre-2.0. I'm down with that, but it will probably step on the toes of BHs. Maybe a temporary payout that's standard per kill, so BHs get higher payout potential due to the contract? Separate perks and rewards for neutrals is probably the best idea, but seems like a 2.0 level change.

Making the flagging and, in turn, the PvP kill counter consistent seems like a no-brainer to me that would cost relatively little in resources (presumably). Pre-2.0, these seem like good changes, assuming they're made hand in hand. However, there seems to be a circular firing squad going on right now, when the reasoning behind both requested changes are very similar.

The only part of this I agree with is the flashing while flagging.

I also think that the "Faction Helper - <faction> Special Forces" should be visible to all

So personally I decided to go Neutral on my BH for the specific reason of not being forced to be tied in with a faction, as for people talking about it making fights more fair and prevent weird run away ambush tacitcs. I don't see how implementing the changes would change that, First off, there is currently a 1 minute timer, and if the player flagging down is caught in any combat it stops the timer, NPC or PC. So in order to safely flag down, a player who joined in the fight either has to leave the fight and safely flag down, or if they die flag down at a cloning center that's not in the conflict zone.

In the case of people not being able to reorganize and counter attack, if a player decided to go back to someplace else to go sit in a cantina for buffs again by the time they get back that person has probably already left because there was no one else to fight/or because the general of whatever event is going on is dead and the event is over. Every time i've gone to a pvp zone to watch/possibly take part in pvp it's normally 2 or 3 players that show up, and normally they get wrecked by all the NPCs of the rival faction then leave cause they can't kill them, what's the point of staying flagged up if people bail the first time they die.

Personally I do feel like this is punishment for the overall group because of the actions of a few individuals. If I recall correctly from live Neutral names not flashing when flagging up is a bug. But Forcing GCW faction mechanics on what's supposed to be a freelancer/Merc option for players is unfair unless you're gonna let Freelancer/merc factions start taking control of cities and what not and give them unique faction gear, etc. But then that defeats the whole purpose of being neutral cause the idea was that they could just play with whoever they want in PvP

RogerDabbit said:

Yes. Do you have an actual point to add, or are you going to continue with the red herrings because there's not much else to say about the actual topic at hand that wasn't said already by the OP and Remis?

Click to expand...

IGN?

RoHRemis said:

The only part of this I agree with is the flashing while flagging.

I also think that the "Faction Helper - <faction> Special Forces" should be visible to all

Click to expand...

Would also be nice if neutral could earn some of the faction perks too... And appear on the war terminal, BUT ONLY IF their action will affect the factional alignments...

I really don't have a dog in this fight myself, as I'm not a ground PVPer. BUT I agree whole heartedly with the idea that the War IntelPad is for factional control, and since they can't(at current) affect it nor benefit from it, that should be left out.

abraxas said:

IGN?

Click to expand...

Not gonna link that on a server where a player has already been targetted, but I've made no bones here, in Discord, or in-game with the fact that I'm relatively new to SWG. In spite of that, I've experienced PvP enough to see how flagging requirement discrepancies could be abused in the current game system. Consistency is a core pillar of any good PvP game, and should be especially so for a game that's currently trying to build up its PvP scene. This isn't even intuitive inconsistency, which is why I don't feel it's a desirable status quo.

If you really cared about balance between factions and GCW you should be first upvoting this other PV instead which only has 6 upvotes so far included mine https://swgr.org/post/gcw-invasions-tool-and-building-phase-adjustments.730/
Other aspects like city invasions have been incredibly umbalanced since release but i guess when its on your favor you are not interested in balancing issues. Also asking for a "review bombing" in multiple discord servers bringing up your personal issues with certain individuals wont help too much other than making your playervoice get stuck.
That being said, being neutral has its inherit benefits and downsides, if you want neutrals to get the same restrictions and downsides as the other 2 factions they would have to be treated the same way with benefits and perks ie: access to gcw bases, special cosmetics/armor/weps, kill counts, etc...

I agree on that they should flash while going up and down but from an unbiased standpoint i can't think of reasons why for the other ideas listed should be implemented unless neutrals get rewards from GCW as well as able to participate in static bases etc etc

RogerDabbit said:

Not gonna link that on a server where a player has already been targetted, but I've made no bones here, in Discord, or in-game with the fact that I'm relatively new to SWG. In spite of that, I've experienced PvP enough to see how flagging requirement discrepancies could be abused in the current game system. Consistency is a core pillar of any good PvP game, and should be especially so for a game that's currently trying to build up its PvP scene. This isn't even intuitive inconsistency, which is why I don't feel it's a desirable status quo.

Click to expand...

It's aight already figured it out. <3

Chiraka said:

This player voice aims to align the standards for staging up and down for participation for the GCW.

Click to expand...

I love this idea and support it 100%.

Satrina said:

I love this idea and support it 100%.

Click to expand...

Whoa love the icon. Not quite Aliessa levels of true honor and beauty, but nice.

abraxas said:

Whoa love the icon. Not quite Aliessa levels of true honor and beauty, but nice.

Click to expand...

That is my face, the one that uses deny service to those with no honor.

Satrina said:

That is my face, the one that uses deny service to those with no honor.

Click to expand...

What exactly do you mean by service?

Chiraka said:

This player voice aims to align the standards for staging up and down for participation for the GCW.

Click to expand...

Civilian combats have always been a problem in war. I'm sure the US would have loved to know which civilians in Vietnam were going to pull out weapons and shot at them. Thus I'm sure Vietcon would have liked to know which civilians were ratting on them. French civilians helped the allied forces drive German forces out of France. It was also German/Polish/(insert country) civilians that turn there fellow civilians over to the SS. The system as it is, represents the guerilla warfare aspect of war. The empire/rebels don't know who to trust and that is the way it is suppose to be. Paranoia is part of war.