Open Artisan Change several resource cap/gates back to Live, SOE, rates at the time of the NGE

I vote yes. This will be a net positive for the server. It will increase competition and return resto to what we remember how crafting on live was.

So first off, resto isn't the only server with these changes. Any post 2016 swg-source based server, like SWG Evolve and SWG Beyond, would have these same resource values unless they were specifically changed on those projects.

As for the actual change, I am opposed to changing stuff in a way that devalues all existing resources/products instantly, thus I am opposed to this change. I would support a change that directly addresses just the uncappable crafts, without affecting almost every other craft in the game, preferably in a more gradual manner(like doubling the spawn rate of JTL resources for example).

shintufelper said:

As for the actual change, I am opposed to changing stuff in a way that devalues all existing resources/products instantly, thus I am opposed to this change. I would support a change that directly addresses just the uncappable crafts, without affecting almost every other craft in the game, preferably in a more gradual manner(like doubling the spawn rate of JTL resources for example).

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I am in no way arguing here, I am truly asking for clarification. I thought I understood the game, but there are folks here that make me feel like I know nothing.

How would making the caps on newer spawned resources more in line with LIVE devalue all existing resources? Would their stats then change or would they stay the same until consumed?

shintufelper said:

So first off, resto isn't the only server with these changes. Any post 2016 swg-source based server, like SWG Evolve and SWG Beyond, would have these same resource values unless they were specifically changed on those projects.

As for the actual change, I am opposed to changing stuff in a way that devalues all existing resources/products instantly, thus I am opposed to this change. I would support a change that directly addresses just the uncappable crafts, without affecting almost every other craft in the game, preferably in a more gradual manner(like doubling the spawn rate of JTL resources for example).

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Progression is healthy for an mmo. Right now very few resources can get close to cap or cap some items. There are very few crafters that compete on the high end of crafts because of the stringent requirements of some resources. This stifles competition and thus the economy of resto. Older gear will still be useable and there will be a boon to crafters as people slowly upgrade their gear. This also only affects crafts that call for generic resources and most ground gear calls for specific named resources thus will not be effected . There is decay on the ground and most items are designed to be replaced anyway. I feel that those who are opposed to this change do not want the extra competition.

I agree with this change, this cures my OCD.

49.92, MAKE IT 50.

Do we have a true idea on how many items this will impact? Like actual numbers? Is it going to help just a few ships or it is going to disrupt the entire economy as it changes the quality of thousands of items? What is the exact scale of this change? Do we know?

nuri2k said:

Do we have a true idea on how many items this will impact? Like actual numbers? Is it going to help just a few ships or it is going to disrupt the entire economy as it changes the quality of thousands of items? What is the exact scale of this change? Do we know?

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Resources in SWG are so massive and varied it probably only affects probably 10 items.

Like, it won't affect Armorsmith probably; as most things are capped.

Chewiejdh said:

I am in no way arguing here, I am truly asking for clarification. I thought I understood the game, but there are folks here that make me feel like I know nothing.

How would making the caps on newer spawned resources more in line with LIVE devalue all existing resources? Would their stats then change or would they stay the same until consumed?

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This doesn't change caps on newly spawned resources, this is caps in regards to how schematics calculate maximum quality.

For example, 1000 currently means a 650 is 65%. Reducing that value down to 650 means a 650, 700, 890, etc are all equivalent to what 1000 used to be, 100% capped.

See elchapodan's explanation for a more well written and formatted explanation.

Derpyh said:

Resources in SWG are so massive and varied it probably only affects probably 10 items.

Like, it won't affect Armorsmith probably; as most things are capped.

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It will still affect armorsmiths, they won't need 3 CPU resources to cap anymore, can get away with 2 CPU resources now because one or two values don't need to be as high. It makes it easier for EVERYONE to cap pretty much. Instead of 1 in 1000 spawns being cappable(for example), it'll become 1 in 200... and this will be retroactive as well.

Chewiejdh said:

I am in no way arguing here, I am truly asking for clarification. I thought I understood the game, but there are folks here that make me feel like I know nothing.

How would making the caps on newer spawned resources more in line with LIVE devalue all existing resources? Would their stats then change or would they stay the same until consumed?

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This does not affect resources, themselves. This affects how specific resource types are weighted quality-wise. Forgive me if the below does not explain it well enough, I tried to make it as easy to follow as possible.

Any crafting schematic which calls for the following specific types is affected by this ("Requires n units of <resource_type>"), including non-JTL schematics:
Ferrous Metal (CR, MA, CD)
Non-Ferrous Metal (DR, CR, UT)
Steel (CR, MA, CD)
Aluminum (DR, CR, HR, UT, SR, CD)
Copper (DR, CR, HR, UT, SR)
Siliclastic Ore (DR, UT, SR)

If your schematic calls for one of the above resource types, your resource will be weighted against a range which may only be possible to reach 1000 in by a JTL resource. I will use PSGs from Armorsmith as an example for this because this one I am all too familiar with:


In the above schematic we see that "Steel" is one that matches our list of affected resource types. Since Conductivity (CD) was an affected range, we can look specifically at Recharge Rate for this. Assuming I have a completely maxed out Duralloy Steel with 1000 Overall Quality and 650 Conductivity, I reach the following quality on Recharge Rate (we won't worry about weighting ratios here since the weighted caps are effectively both 1000, no math needed to normalize):

Overall Quality -> 1000 (100% of possible cap) / 2 = 500 (50%, or max contribution to Recharge Rate)
Conductivity -> 650 (65% of possible cap) / 2 = 325 (32.5%)
Total Recharge Rate possible -> 82.5%

If I choose to wait 100 years for a JTL steel to spawn with 1000 OQ and 1000 CD, then and only then can I finally reach 100% Recharge Rate on this schematic.

What gets affected if this particular change goes through? Mk3 PSGs would now be equal footing with Droidekas, effectively making currently-on-the-market droideka PSGs drop in value to that of MK3 PSGs (60-75% devaluation).

I am particularly on the fence about this change, but will wait to hear more feedback before voting.

Note: This does not affect resource types which call for specific types under these families, i.e. "Requires n units of Polysteel Copper or Titanium Aluminum or Ditanium Steel, etc"

EMPHASIS: I believe a separate proposal should be made for the frequency of JTL resource spawns to be adjusted as I believe it is now a separate (but equally necessary) change.

Zoso said:

Progression is healthy for an mmo. Right now very few resources can get close to cap or cap some items. There are very few crafters that compete on the high end of crafts because of the stringent requirements of some resources. This stifles competition and thus the economy of resto. Older gear will still be useable and there will be a boon to crafters as people slowly upgrade their gear. This also only affects crafts that call for generic resources and most ground gear calls for specific named resources thus will not be effected . There is decay on the ground and most items are designed to be replaced anyway. I feel that those who are opposed to this change do not want the extra competition.

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your line of thought is flawed , capped resources has nothing to do with progression , it doesn't matter if the caps for certain resources is 1000 or 650 because eventually there will be resources to reach those caps , how long before those resources appear that is a whole different topic, what you can argue is change some recipes so that 650 is being used as the cap for those recipes.
As for the whole crafter competition argument, again it is flawed as a brand new crafter should NOT be able to compete right away with a well established crafter , IF they put the time and effort and BUY the resources then yes they will be able to compete , and i say buy because unless you have been playing since day ONE and not missed any server best resource that has spawned then ANY crafter wishing to be the best , will have to buy those resources , raising the caps isn't the magic wand solution you make it out to be , its not like if they were to ever implement this change , suddenly server best resources are going to spawn every week just because the caps were raised

jcan0918 said:

your line of thought is flawed , capped resources has nothing to do with progression , it doesn't matter if the caps for certain resources is 1000 or 650 because eventually there will be resources to reach those caps , how long before those resources appear that is a whole different topic, what you can argue is change some recipes so that 650 is being used as the cap for those recipes.
As for the whole crafter competition argument, again it is flawed as a brand new crafter should NOT be able to compete right away with a well established crafter , IF they put the time and effort and BUY the resources then yes they will be able to compete , and i say buy because unless you have been playing since day ONE and not missed any server best resource that has spawned then ANY crafter wishing to be the best , will have to buy those resources , raising the caps isn't the magic wand solution you make it out to be , its not like if they were to ever implement this change , suddenly server best resources are going to spawn every week just because the caps were raised

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Progression as in people upgrading their gear. Saying newer players should not be able to compete sounds like someone who does not want the extra competition. My fiends and I have been here for 3 months and have pooled our resources to buy resources to server cap collection space parts so saying it can't happen isn't true. Where did I say server best resources are going to spawn every week? I said it will help reduce the stringent resource requirements for newer players thus increase competition.

I vote yes on this proposal.

If the proposed changes accurately represent the true original state of the game and the developers intent then I believe it should be restored to that state.

It does not seem in the best interests of the server to maintain the skewed caps simply because some of become accustomed to it. On the contrary I believe this would be a benefit to the server economy as it could drive more activity as crafters begin replacing the pieces of gear that can now have slightly higher stats.

As a long time crafter, on live and several current servers I 100% support this.

Zoso said:

Progression as in people upgrading their gear. Saying newer players should not be able to compete sounds like someone who does not want the extra competition. My fiends and I have been here for 3 months and have pooled our resources to buy resources to server cap collection space parts so saying it can't happen isn't true. Where did I say server best resources are going to spawn every week? I said it will help reduce the stringent resource requirements for newer players thus increase competition.

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again you are clueless , if you want progression as in players upgrading gear then higher decay is your answer and not whether a resource is capped at 650 or 1000, im all for competition but the crafting in this game is a long term commitment in gathering server best materials or buying if one prefers a faster route and not an instant gratification type of thing where i can create a crafter today and next week im pumping server best products , again IF your goal is to make crafting more competitive then perhaps tweaking the frequency of the resource spawns is a better way to go , raising the caps is not going to do anything short term maybe in 2-3 years there will be a steel with 1000 CD , who knows

I fully agree with the proposal.

The argument for the effect of armorsmiths only needing 2 capped resources instead of 3 is just silly. So what? Are you going to buy uncapped RIS? No? Then why should space be forced into a lower cap? If it makes end game armor on the ground easier to obtain, wouldn't that be better for pulling in more newer players?

Raderen said:

I fully agree with the proposal.

The argument for the effect of armorsmiths only needing 2 capped resources instead of 3 is just silly. So what? Are you going to buy uncapped RIS? No? Then why should space be forced into a lower cap? If it makes end game armor on the ground easier to obtain, wouldn't that be better for pulling in more newer players?

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The argument you're referring to is fallacious, please read the post it was ineffectively referencing as well as my comment below.

Derpyh said:

I agree with this change, this cures my OCD.

49.92, MAKE IT 50.

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This does not affect armor layers...

Derpyh said:

Resources in SWG are so massive and varied it probably only affects probably 10 items.

Like, it won't affect Armorsmith probably; as most things are capped.

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It affects armorsmiths pretty severely as common, factory-made PSGs will be of same caliber as Droideka PSGs which are currently intended to be rare drops and scarce. This commodity is moved more often than armor sets and made up a significant portion of my income as an Armorsmith last year.

There seems to be some confusion surrounding what this actually affects.

This does not affect armor in any way, shape, or form, as most armor schematics that manipulate resists and condition use named resources.

I highlighted the single scenario for Armorsmith impact in my post above and emphasized the severity.

I would ask knowledgeable crafters in the other specialties to take a look at popular items that move on the market and assess which areas are impacted in their own schematics and post it here so that the entire community has awareness of what they're voting on.

Regardless of current perception, this is not a small change and risk needs to be evaluated for each profession.