Jedi Visibility

Jedi Visibility
This idea/suggestion has been flagged as Not Implemented because of a lack of popularity, lack of interest, lack of feasibility, or other determination by the Development Team, so the suggestion will not be implemented. Once a suggestion has been flagged this way, the decision is final. Although the issue may be raised again in the future after a six month cooldown. A response explanation from the Development Team can be found in the thread.
Status
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Rowa

Proposal
I understand that once a Jedi gets on the Bounty Hunter (BH) boards, they are always on the boards until a BH kills them, no matter how high or low their visibility. Everything else fluctuates depending upon the visibility level, i.e. attacks by NPC, ability to use public transportation, the bank, vendors, etc. As a Jedi reduces their visibility, it should also affect the BH in some way. I have never played BH so I don't know much about how they could be impacted. Some suggestions would be making it harder for the BH to find the Jedi by having the droid that is launched malfunction or give false information. I believe at some point the name of the Jedi is revealed. Don't reveal the name if visibility is low. Have the Jedi's listing on the Boards become random, or reduce the bounty. BH are given the ability to pull a Jedi from their home when visibility is high, give the Jedi the ability to instantly escape when their visibility is low.
Justification
One of the goals of SWGR is to keep the game somewhat realistic. Common sense seems to say that as a Jedi's visibility goes down it would be harder to find that Jedi. This would also put a little bit of a challenge in the game for BH and to a very small degree, reward the Jedi for keeping their visibility low which is the general philosophy of the game towards Jedi in keeping their numbers low. The Jedi's visibility probably won't stay low for long because the game has been designed to make everything a Jedi does increase visibility. For example, initially creatures did not give visibility, but now they do. This by the way is not very realistic at all. Creatures would not be able to report a Jedi. After a Jedi does one of the Heroic instances they get enough visibility to have the NPC start attacking, lose the ability to use public transportation, etc., and get on the BH boards if they should be off. If a Jedi goes through all the trouble of losing their visibility or reducing it, there should be a reduction in the BH's ability to find them. As the Jedi's visibility quickly increases again, the BH would be able to find the Jedi as usual.
Motivation
To keep the game "realistic". There isn't a problem, just an idea to add some realism to the game.
In the interest of realism, when a Jedi reduces visibility, it should be harder for the Bounty Hunter to find them.
 
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The problem you have here is visibility can be removed safely afk in a house or ranch. With the BH already having a small window of you playing to

1: see bounty on the boards
2: collect bounty and launch probe
3: track across planet, and droids do lose tracking.
4: drive to the middle of no where
5: force ran away or cloak away
6: log off

Bounties need to stay until they are collected or jedi would never have any you can actually get.

I actually think the visibility system is pretty spot on at the moment. Easy to stay off unless doing heroics but then you get enough xp to cover the penalty in 2 runs.
 
Disagree, Vis is fine as it is.

It should not be hard for BH to find Jedi. Just to fight them, which it is. Trust me.

The name is not revealed on the boards, only until the seeker droid function is used.

Also, this is not a personal attack on you. But i've come across you three times now. You have been unbuffed and unprepared everytime.

I'd suggest you play a little more conservative yourself before asking the system to be scaled down to meet your style.


Dots
 
elvismonkey said:
The problem you have here is visibility can be removed safely afk in a house or ranch. With the BH already having a small window of you playing to

1: see bounty on the boards
2: collect bounty and launch probe
3: track across planet, and droids do lose tracking.
4: drive to the middle of no where
5: force ran away or cloak away
6: log off

Bounties need to stay until they are collected or jedi would never have any you can actually get.

I actually think the visibility system is pretty spot on at the moment. Easy to stay off unless doing heroics but then you get enough xp to cover the penalty in 2 runs.
Click to expand...
First, I want to point out that I did not suggest that anything be done to how or how much visibility a Jedi gains or loses. I didn't say take the Jedi off the BH Boards, I suggested to make it harder for the BH to find the Jedi when the Jedi lowers their visibility. Visibility cannot be removed safely AFK in a house because BH have pulled me out of my house several times, with a couple of BH friends standing nearby. So Jedi cannot be in their own house safely, AFK or not.

Again, I didn't say remove the bounty or do anything to affect the Jedi's visibility, I said make it harder for the BH to find the Jedi, which makes sense a person would be harder to find if they are hiding out or keeping their visibility low. And it doesn't take the BH that long to find a jedi. As an example, I logged in at the ranch, used a Flight of the veteran to travel to another player, traveled 900m to my harvesters to empty them, but also needed to move them due to despawn, so picked them up and traveled 900m back to city. BH was there waiting for me. Also, the BH does not stick to the game mechanics in locating the Jedi. They will go into Discord channels they have been graciously invited to for one reason or another and look at conversations to see what the Jedi are doing. If doing Heroics, they will camp outside the instance at the spot where the players load back into the game. They look at loot channels to determine what Heroics they are doing.

And it certainly is easy to stay off the BH Boards, don't play your Jedi. I have taken the time to lose all visibility or lost it all due to losing the 4 lives only to have a BH on me before I even have a chance to get rebuffed. There is nothing in the game worth doing that does not give a Jedi visibility, the Jedi cannot even kill creature lairs all alone on Mustafar without getting visibility. The Jedi's visibility is multiplied if grouped with other Jedi. Reason - concern about people taking full groups of Jedi into the Heroics to the exclusion of others. Not happening. I have never heard anyone say when forming a group, "cannot use you, you are not a Jedi." The opposite has been true, "we have too many Jedi already," we need a commando, doctor, cm, sl, etc. The reason for so many Jedi--no one else is available, it is not by design. You can go into one Heroic without any visibility and come out with Darth Vader on your butt.

The Jedi does not have simply an XP penalty, let's not forget the 18 hours of not being able to play their Jedi, which is usually the player's main character.

How about instead of just rewarding the BH, the BH also suffers a penalty. If they do not beat the Jedi, they lose the bounty, which is paid to the Jedi. How about an XP loss and 18 hours of no play time for the BH? Logically, if there are fewer Jedi in the time period of the game, wouldn't there also be fewer BH? Shouldn't something be done to keep people from wanting to take on a profession that they would not be making any money at? Instead of giving the BH all the additional fighting abilities the Jedi does not get, which makes the BH the alpha class not the Jedi, we knock the BH back down to a level playing field. The BH can no longer rank higher than master sergeant and cannot have the skill of an air strike, or other skills and buffs the officers receive. BH does not get the element of surprise, maybe someone warns the Jedi the BH has their bounty and is on the way or the Jedi can see the BH as an enemy before the attack then the Jedi has time to be sure all buffs are up (which will cause visibility and the reason they may not be used all the time, or the saber not equipped), eat their foods, drink, and call a Jedi friend or two to come help them fight the BHs (and there was a time in the live game pre-cu where the Jedi could get help as well), or maybe BH is required to fight the Jedi alone. More than one can still get the bounty, but when the fight begins by one, the others are locked out of the fight. If the Jedi dies, the bounties of the others are gone. If the BH loses or the Jedi escapes, then after a cool-down period, the other BHs bounty becomes active again.

My point is, the pendulum is swinging just a bit too much in favor of the BH. I would think the BHs would want to have a challenge, but I guess not. This is a complicated issue for sure and numerous arguments that can be made from either viewpoint. But an argument that the BH are disadvantaged is not valid no matter how you look at the issue. At best, the BH can say "sometimes" when I have a Jedi bounty, when I get to the Jedi, the Jedi will cloak and run away. After all, if the Jedi were so much more powerful than the BH, why cloak and run away instead of fighting?
 
MrMushroom said:
Disagree, Vis is fine as it is.

It should not be hard for BH to find Jedi. Just to fight them, which it is. Trust me.

The name is not revealed on the boards, only until the seeker droid function is used.

Also, this is not a personal attack on you. But i've come across you three times now. You have been unbuffed and unprepared everytime.

I'd suggest you play a little more conservative yourself before asking the system to be scaled down to meet your style.


Dots
Click to expand...
See the response above to ElvisMonkey. I didn't say anything about changing visibility. I only said as visibility lowers, BH should have a more difficult time finding them. Do you disagree that if a person (Jedi) is hiding out, not letting others know their whereabouts, etc., the person would be harder to find, for anyone to find? In reality, isn't finding the bounty the most time-consuming and difficult portion of the BH's job? Most bounties don't even resist if they are found. Haven't you ever watched Dog the BH or whatever it is called? In all seriousness, I disagree with you that it should always be easy for the BH to find his bounty (the Jedi). And reality has established that finding the bounty (Jedi) is more difficult than fighting one.

I don't think a Jedi that is about to have a BH attack can ever be totally prepared. We don't even know you are there most times until you start attacking and the first attack is the knockdown, then there may be two or three more quick attacks and the Jedi is dead. Not much time to react no matter how prepared with those buffs the Jedi might be. And again, things are made easier for the BH because now the ability to get up from a knockdown has been taken away allowing you two seconds to attack the Jedi without the Jedi being able to get up and attack back (how many keys can you mash in two seconds?). Plenty of time for most BH to have the Jedi dead or close enough to it that the Jedi is unable to come back. (Of course, there is always that friend or two that a BH might have with him to help in the endeavor.)

I have never claimed to be the best player in the game, or even a good one and when it comes to pvp, I suck. I can't even get my bubble activated most times to avoid instant death. I have always chosen the support role of healer which is most often the weakest "fighting" class because someone has to do it and most gamers have too big of an ego to do so (I can p*** further than you). It is no great feat to beat me. Nothing personal, but maybe I am asking the system to be scaled above your style because you would have to start to use your brain instead of all brawn.
 
"So Jedi cannot be in their own house safely, AFK or not."

I just wanted to make sure you were aware this ability is tied to your current visibility - I think it is over 4000 (someone correct me if wrong) if you are under this amount, they cannot blow you out the house. If you are over 4000 they can and you need ranch. Use that knowledge and your rough guess of vis to know the risk vs you.

There is a couple of things you can do to reduce the first strike and surviving that would position you alot better to fight/escape etc, if you are high vis/travelling around outside of ranch keep your health food (parwan) and spice rolling so you have higher effective hp to give you more reaction time, and remember you can pop stims and synthsteak even knocked down.

Finally, it does feel in general some of the mobs in heroics give too much vis (the exar kun cultists on first boss for example are unattackable but give a ton of vis repeatedly, regularly before and throughout fight) and that should be kept reviewed for balance.
 
Rowa said:
See the response above to ElvisMonkey. I didn't say anything about changing visibility. I only said as visibility lowers, BH should have a more difficult time finding them. Do you disagree that if a person (Jedi) is hiding out, not letting others know their whereabouts, etc., the person would be harder to find, for anyone to find? In reality, isn't finding the bounty the most time-consuming and difficult portion of the BH's job? Most bounties don't even resist if they are found. Haven't you ever watched Dog the BH or whatever it is called? In all seriousness, I disagree with you that it should always be easy for the BH to find his bounty (the Jedi). And reality has established that finding the bounty (Jedi) is more difficult than fighting one.

I don't think a Jedi that is about to have a BH attack can ever be totally prepared. We don't even know you are there most times until you start attacking and the first attack is the knockdown, then there may be two or three more quick attacks and the Jedi is dead. Not much time to react no matter how prepared with those buffs the Jedi might be. And again, things are made easier for the BH because now the ability to get up from a knockdown has been taken away allowing you two seconds to attack the Jedi without the Jedi being able to get up and attack back (how many keys can you mash in two seconds?). Plenty of time for most BH to have the Jedi dead or close enough to it that the Jedi is unable to come back. (Of course, there is always that friend or two that a BH might have with him to help in the endeavor.)

I have never claimed to be the best player in the game, or even a good one and when it comes to pvp, I suck. I can't even get my bubble activated most times to avoid instant death. I have always chosen the support role of healer which is most often the weakest "fighting" class because someone has to do it and most gamers have too big of an ego to do so (I can p*** further than you). It is no great feat to beat me. Nothing personal, but maybe I am asking the system to be scaled above your style because you would have to start to use your brain instead of all brawn.
Click to expand...

Any jedi who runs around without long-term, mid term consumables or spice up, Deserves to be ghosted for 18 hours. You know the risks. Stop being so entitled and deal with it mate.
 
Jedi visabilty is horrendous. Looking at thr road map it states the server wants you to play your way and not be forced into anything.

I want to go into an instance and not have to worry about being om the bounty boards. It feels like Jedo are being punished for wanting to enjoy pve end game content.

No other class on the server has such negatives for playing it. Jedi first lose exp if they die now. Second can't enjoy end game content because will end up on the boards. Alot or jedi don't mind pvp, we don't want to be forced into it because we were enjoying a pve activity.

Remove vis from all instances, and give us options to get off the boards without having to be killed and out for 18 hours. No class besides Jedi loses there character for 18 hours. Next make pvp deaths count the same as pve deaths. 1 to 1 not hey I got 4 lives and now I am ghosted because I died in pvp. Upcoming knight and master needs to have pve options not tied to pvp as well. It's not even remotely fun when Jedi are currently forced into pvp. We want the option not the forced.
 
Pcarley1978 said:
Jedi visabilty is horrendous. Looking at thr road map it states the server wants you to play your way and not be forced into anything.

I want to go into an instance and not have to worry about being om the bounty boards. It feels like Jedo are being punished for wanting to enjoy pve end game content.

No other class on the server has such negatives for playing it. Jedi first lose exp if they die now. Second can't enjoy end game content because will end up on the boards. Alot or jedi don't mind pvp, we don't want to be forced into it because we were enjoying a pve activity.

Remove vis from all instances, and give us options to get off the boards without having to be killed and out for 18 hours. No class besides Jedi loses there character for 18 hours. Next make pvp deaths count the same as pve deaths. 1 to 1 not hey I got 4 lives and now I am ghosted because I died in pvp. Upcoming knight and master needs to have pve options not tied to pvp as well. It's not even remotely fun when Jedi are currently forced into pvp. We want the option not the forced.
Click to expand...
you knew EXACTLY what you signed up when you click that box and said yes to being a jedi , stop acting shocked
the jedi/bh system has been pretty much the same since the LIVE version of the game , so again stop acting shocked
and for the love of god stop using the word FORCED , since it is your choice to be on the BH boards , you want to use one of the best professions to do heroics/end game stuff with ZERO consequences
The devs have posted their diaries regarding JEDI so again stop acting shocked and stop with the foolishness and stop acting like a baby
 
Pcarley1978 said:
Jedi visabilty is horrendous. Looking at thr road map it states the server wants you to play your way and not be forced into anything.

I want to go into an instance and not have to worry about being om the bounty boards. It feels like Jedo are being punished for wanting to enjoy pve end game content.

No other class on the server has such negatives for playing it. Jedi first lose exp if they die now. Second can't enjoy end game content because will end up on the boards. Alot or jedi don't mind pvp, we don't want to be forced into it because we were enjoying a pve activity.

Remove vis from all instances, and give us options to get off the boards without having to be killed and out for 18 hours. No class besides Jedi loses there character for 18 hours. Next make pvp deaths count the same as pve deaths. 1 to 1 not hey I got 4 lives and now I am ghosted because I died in pvp. Upcoming knight and master needs to have pve options not tied to pvp as well. It's not even remotely fun when Jedi are currently forced into pvp. We want the option not the forced.
Click to expand...
Yes we need some jedi friendly pve content BUT the point of the vis system is to keep Jedi hidden so we don't see glowbats everywhere. It is hard to balance that out. I do not agree with removing vis from ALL instances though. Maybe something along the lines of how MUS quests works. The option to get better paying or higher level quests is pvp but if you pick pve it pays less.
 
According to the lore in this game's time and age, Jedi are almost nonexistent and are hunted, hated, and shunned by the vast majority of the population. The life of those who choose the way of the Force should be perilous, and they must be extremely careful to avoid being noticed as Jedi.

From this lore perspective, the Jedi's first goal should be to remain hidden and minimize any rumors about their presence. Currently, there are many tools available in the game to lower your visibility, and most of them require patience, which is quite fittingly one of the core pillars of both the Jedi and Sith ways.

If there is a great opportunity for the Jedi to gain something, such as loot from a Heroic, then it should come with risks and consequences. The risk is being hunted by Bounty Hunters, as killing a well-known character in this galaxy (like Exar Kun) generates significant rumors. The consequence is either to fight or to get killed. This choice is for the Jedi to make, but that choice was already made when considering the risk and rewards before entering the instance.

I believe the developers did an excellent job in creating that atmosphere, as I rarely see Jedi in my daily activities while playing the game. There is a clear choice for the Jedi, with risks and rewards attached to it. Following the path of the Force is dangerous and should not be taken lightly.
 
I'm going to monkey's paw.

I agree that BH missions should drop by time.

However....

All BH's can use "Bounty Check" to check to see if your character has a bounty and try to claim it just by seeing you as compensation for that.
 
Derpyh said:
All BH's can use "Bounty Check" to check to see if your character has a bounty and try to claim it just by seeing you as compensation for that.
Click to expand...

Now that sounds interesting. Probably not very feasible unless they change what you can see of other players. It is often easy to know someone is a jedi just from seeing the icons like the gift thingy from the belt and cloak.
 
Last edited:
Stroopwafel said:
According to the lore in this game's time and age, Jedi are almost nonexistent and are hunted, hated, and shunned by the vast majority of the population. The life of those who choose the way of the Force should be perilous, and they must be extremely careful to avoid being noticed as Jedi.

From this lore perspective, the Jedi's first goal should be to remain hidden and minimize any rumors about their presence. Currently, there are many tools available in the game to lower your visibility, and most of them require patience, which is quite fittingly one of the core pillars of both the Jedi and Sith ways.

If there is a great opportunity for the Jedi to gain something, such as loot from a Heroic, then it should come with risks and consequences. The risk is being hunted by Bounty Hunters, as killing a well-known character in this galaxy (like Exar Kun) generates significant rumors. The consequence is either to fight or to get killed. This choice is for the Jedi to make, but that choice was already made when considering the risk and rewards before entering the instance.

I believe the developers did an excellent job in creating that atmosphere, as I rarely see Jedi in my daily activities while playing the game. There is a clear choice for the Jedi, with risks and rewards attached to it. Following the path of the Force is dangerous and should not be taken lightly.
Click to expand...
Perfect ! Can't be said better.
 
jcan0918 said:
you knew EXACTLY what you signed up when you click that box and said yes to being a jedi , stop acting shocked
the jedi/bh system has been pretty much the same since the LIVE version of the game , so again stop acting shocked
and for the love of god stop using the word FORCED , since it is your choice to be on the BH boards , you want to use one of the best professions to do heroics/end game stuff with ZERO consequences
The devs have posted their diaries regarding JEDI so again stop acting shocked and stop with the foolishness and stop acting like a baby.
Click to expand...


Oh another bad comment of you knew exactly what you signed up for. That argument us old and worn out, try a new excuse. I ammtired if the whiney PVPers ruining it for everyone. Or the BHs that complain they can't kill a jedi. New flash!!! Not every Jedi is built for pvp, nor should be have to be.

It's not fun at all that Jedis can not enjoy end game content and are punished for trying to enjoy the game so drop the old tired comment of you knew what you signed up for. We shouldn't have to worry about being on the boards and punished for enjoying PVE content.
You talk about the risk, when is the last time any class but Jedi had to take a risk going into heoric. Oh wait you die you can just re enter. A jedi dies depending on how many lives are left lose access to their character for 18 hours. If a non jedi dies in an instance they have no consequences. So stop with that line if thinking, it's pure garbage.

It is also forced PVP. I have heard the arguments if then don't take your jedi in. Why should I be forced to make that choice, are you forced to not play a chatacter because it will result in forced pvp, no.

As for acting like a baby, the only ones that are are the butt hurt ones that want to be able to get easy bounties from a non pvp jedi. The very road map says play how you want to and not into a forced play style. The game is meant to be fun, not when you are forced into a content you don't want to. You notice how little jedis are played or seen outside an instance. It's because no one wants to be forced into pvp and that is exactly what is happening.

Instances should never ever have vis period.
 
Pcarley1978 said:
Oh another bad comment of you knew exactly what you signed up for. That argument us old and worn out, try a new excuse. I ammtired if the whiney PVPers ruining it for everyone. Or the BHs that complain they can't kill a jedi. New flash!!! Not every Jedi is built for pvp, nor should be have to be.

It's not fun at all that Jedis can not enjoy end game content and are punished for trying to enjoy the game so drop the old tired comment of you knew what you signed up for. We shouldn't have to worry about being on the boards and punished for enjoying PVE content.
You talk about the risk, when is the last time any class but Jedi had to take a risk going into heoric. Oh wait you die you can just re enter. A jedi dies depending on how many lives are left lose access to their character for 18 hours. If a non jedi dies in an instance they have no consequences. So stop with that line if thinking, it's pure garbage.

It is also forced PVP. I have heard the arguments if then don't take your jedi in. Why should I be forced to make that choice, are you forced to not play a chatacter because it will result in forced pvp, no.

As for acting like a baby, the only ones that are are the butt hurt ones that want to be able to get easy bounties from a non pvp jedi. The very road map says play how you want to and not into a forced play style. The game is meant to be fun, not when you are forced into a content you don't want to. You notice how little jedis are played or seen outside an instance. It's because no one wants to be forced into pvp and that is exactly what is happening.

Instances should never ever have vis period.
Click to expand...
Ohband as for choosing to be on the boards, none of us choose to be on the boards, do a single instance and you are forced on the boards, good god you run with 2 jedi, Vader comes for you. So yes very much forced.
 
Pcarley1978 said:
You notice how little jedis are played or seen outside an instance. It's because no one wants to be forced into pvp and that is exactly what is happening.

Instances should never ever have vis period.
Click to expand...

Wrong sorry. The vis system is meant to keep them in hiding. So this piece you are way wrong. My question is after 5 hours in the forums of this being said and now here, really what is the point? What is the goal. Everyone knows how you feel AND if there is a little bit of patience you will be rewarded down the road. Complaining just to complain gets old after awhile.
 
Pcarley1978 said:
Oh another bad comment of you knew exactly what you signed up for. That argument us old and worn out, try a new excuse. I ammtired if the whiney PVPers ruining it for everyone. Or the BHs that complain they can't kill a jedi. New flash!!! Not every Jedi is built for pvp, nor should be have to be.

It's not fun at all that Jedis can not enjoy end game content and are punished for trying to enjoy the game so drop the old tired comment of you knew what you signed up for. We shouldn't have to worry about being on the boards and punished for enjoying PVE content.
You talk about the risk, when is the last time any class but Jedi had to take a risk going into heoric. Oh wait you die you can just re enter. A jedi dies depending on how many lives are left lose access to their character for 18 hours. If a non jedi dies in an instance they have no consequences. So stop with that line if thinking, it's pure garbage.

It is also forced PVP. I have heard the arguments if then don't take your jedi in. Why should I be forced to make that choice, are you forced to not play a chatacter because it will result in forced pvp, no.

As for acting like a baby, the only ones that are are the butt hurt ones that want to be able to get easy bounties from a non pvp jedi. The very road map says play how you want to and not into a forced play style. The game is meant to be fun, not when you are forced into a content you don't want to. You notice how little jedis are played or seen outside an instance. It's because no one wants to be forced into pvp and that is exactly what is happening.

Instances should never ever have vis period.
Click to expand...
Hate to break it to you, but Jedi in SWG was not one of the original paths this game came out with. It was added, and was supposed to be rare and difficult. These types of comments is exactly why the NGE happened. What you want is to be rare, alpha class with no consequences.

Between profession balance, and balance amongst the people, fair and randomness, and also a deterrent to keep people’s jedis in their back pocket rather than front and center in nearly every activity; I cannot agree that instances shouldn’t create vis. If you want the rewards, you need to reap the risks. The risks have been laid out for you, and you either choose to take them, or not. Play any other of the 32 profs, there’s plenty of others out there who don’t have a Jedi, and would be more than happy to play within the rules.

If you can’t get on board with the rules in place, may I suggest a server like Legends where you can be a Jedi without vis?

- Downvoted
 
You want balance then if a non jedi dies give them that 18 hour lock out too. On live Jedis never were ghosted. Again forced pvp, not everyone wants to do pvp. PVErs want to pvp if they choose, not be forced into it. It doesn't make the game fun at all.

As the road map says we want you to play the way you want and not be forced into a play you don't want to be. Forcing players into pvp goes against that.
 
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