Jedi Visibility

Jedi Visibility
This idea/suggestion has been flagged as Not Implemented because of a lack of popularity, lack of interest, lack of feasibility, or other determination by the Development Team, so the suggestion will not be implemented. Once a suggestion has been flagged this way, the decision is final. Although the issue may be raised again in the future after a six month cooldown. A response explanation from the Development Team can be found in the thread.
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Rowa

Proposal
I understand that once a Jedi gets on the Bounty Hunter (BH) boards, they are always on the boards until a BH kills them, no matter how high or low their visibility. Everything else fluctuates depending upon the visibility level, i.e. attacks by NPC, ability to use public transportation, the bank, vendors, etc. As a Jedi reduces their visibility, it should also affect the BH in some way. I have never played BH so I don't know much about how they could be impacted. Some suggestions would be making it harder for the BH to find the Jedi by having the droid that is launched malfunction or give false information. I believe at some point the name of the Jedi is revealed. Don't reveal the name if visibility is low. Have the Jedi's listing on the Boards become random, or reduce the bounty. BH are given the ability to pull a Jedi from their home when visibility is high, give the Jedi the ability to instantly escape when their visibility is low.
Justification
One of the goals of SWGR is to keep the game somewhat realistic. Common sense seems to say that as a Jedi's visibility goes down it would be harder to find that Jedi. This would also put a little bit of a challenge in the game for BH and to a very small degree, reward the Jedi for keeping their visibility low which is the general philosophy of the game towards Jedi in keeping their numbers low. The Jedi's visibility probably won't stay low for long because the game has been designed to make everything a Jedi does increase visibility. For example, initially creatures did not give visibility, but now they do. This by the way is not very realistic at all. Creatures would not be able to report a Jedi. After a Jedi does one of the Heroic instances they get enough visibility to have the NPC start attacking, lose the ability to use public transportation, etc., and get on the BH boards if they should be off. If a Jedi goes through all the trouble of losing their visibility or reducing it, there should be a reduction in the BH's ability to find them. As the Jedi's visibility quickly increases again, the BH would be able to find the Jedi as usual.
Motivation
To keep the game "realistic". There isn't a problem, just an idea to add some realism to the game.
In the interest of realism, when a Jedi reduces visibility, it should be harder for the Bounty Hunter to find them.
 
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This suggestion has been closed. Votes are no longer accepted.
I'll make two notes as this discussion continues:

1\ cannibalizing "play your way" to mean "any game mechanic I don't like isn't letting me play my way" is a gross mischaracterization of marketing messaging. The central theme of the Expanding Horizons Publish was indeed about giving players more freedom and more customization, to the extent we did so in the patch notes. It's not launching an open season on any and all mechanics of the game that don't let you play exactly how you want to. This is an MMO with game mechanics. So let's go ahead and drop that.

2\ Jedi is a PvP-involved class. If all this thread boils down to is not wanting "forced PvP" then it is foreclosed by the fact that we don't force anyone to PvP, if you keep your visibility below a certain threshold. So just do that. There is no I don't want to be "forced" to PvP argument that will be effective in this discussion.
 
Aconite said:
I'll make two notes as this discussion continues:

1\ cannibalizing "play your way" to mean "any game mechanic I don't like isn't letting me play my way" is a gross mischaracterization of marketing messaging. The central theme of the Expanding Horizons Publish was indeed about giving players more freedom and more customization, to the extent we did so in the patch notes. It's not launching an open season on any and all mechanics of the game that don't let you play exactly how you want to. This is an MMO with game mechanics. So let's go ahead and drop that.

2\ Jedi is a PvP-involved class. If all this thread boils down to is not wanting "forced PvP" then it is foreclosed by the fact that we don't force anyone to PvP, if you keep your visibility below a certain threshold. So just do that. There is no I don't want to be "forced" to PvP argument that will be effective in this discussion.
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Upvote on this reply
 
You all are making my point in some respect. If I go out and about and my visibility goes up, I get on the BH Boards. If I go into hiding to lower my visibility, why not go off the BH Boards? And that is not even what I proposed, I just said to make it more difficult for the BH to find the Jedi. There was a comment about the Jedi being pulled out of their house when their visibility gets over 4000. Guess what, we have no way of knowing how many visibility points we have. We can estimate based upon what happens around us but do not know the exact amount. I cannot know if the game mechanics are messing up and calculating my visibility wrong. Is there a cap on the amount of visibility you can get, I don't know that either. What difference does it make if I cannot play the game because I am out at the ranch trying to lose visibility, or if I am ghosted. Either way, I cannot play the game. In live, Jedi lost xp if they had to clone and lost twice as much xp if they died from a BH and had to clone. If rezzed by a doctor, they could avoid losing the cloning xp penalty, but never from the BH. But the Jedi was never prevented from playing the game. Maybe the problem has once again been that the game has been opened up to allow too many players to unlock Jedi. It is also time to face the fact that the majority of the players want to have a Jedi.

A lot of the above (what I have said and what others have said) has gotten off point. For the sixth time or more, I am only proposing that when a Jedi takes steps to lower visibility, it becomes harder for the BH to find that Jedi. But I would also agree that the amount of visibility a Jedi gets has become ridiculously high. Visibility should be removed from the instances or at a minimum the multiplier taken off as the reason for adding it is invalid, only Jedi groups will be formed to do instances leaving out other professions/players. And if the game is to remain somewhat realistic, there should be no visibility from creatures, they cannot tell the authorities.

Also, if the Jedi is a true alpha class, then the Jedi should always win the fight. And why is it that so many Jedi just try to get away from the BH if they are the alpha class. Who is the alpha class really?
 
Aconite said:
I'll make two notes as this discussion continues:

1\ cannibalizing "play your way" to mean "any game mechanic I don't like isn't letting me play my way" is a gross mischaracterization of marketing messaging. The central theme of the Expanding Horizons Publish was indeed about giving players more freedom and more customization, to the extent we did so in the patch notes. It's not launching an open season on any and all mechanics of the game that don't let you play exactly how you want to. This is an MMO with game mechanics. So let's go ahead and drop that.

2\ Jedi is a PvP-involved class. If all this thread boils down to is not wanting "forced PvP" then it is foreclosed by the fact that we don't force anyone to PvP, if you keep your visibility below a certain threshold. So just do that. There is no I don't want to be "forced" to PvP argument that will be effective in this discussion.
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There is no way to keep your visibility low other than to just not play the game. Everything you do that is worth doing in the game increases your visibility to the point you are constantly under attack. As I said earlier, I go into an Heroic with low visibility or maybe even no visibility because it is not decreasing when I am at the ranch (only way I have of guessing if I have any or not), and come out with Vader on my butt. Not only that, as stated above, we have no way of knowing what are visibility is or how many points we are getting or losing. So what can I do in the game and yet keep my visibility low? For me, it is not the PvP that I object to, it is the not being able to play for 18 hours.
 
Rowa said:
There is no way to keep your visibility low other than to just not play the game. Everything you do that is worth doing in the game increases your visibility to the point you are constantly under attack. As I said earlier, I go into an Heroic with low visibility or maybe even no visibility because it is not decreasing when I am at the ranch (only way I have of guessing if I have any or not), and come out with Vader on my butt. Not only that, as stated above, we have no way of knowing what are visibility is or how many points we are getting or losing. So what can I do in the game and yet keep my visibility low? For me, it is not the PvP that I object to, it is the not being able to play for 18 hours.
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That is not true at all. I play the game and my vis never gets on the boards. You just have to be careful and learn how. You can run 1 or even 2 heroic instances and not get enough vis to get on the BH boards if you learn how. There are also numerous ways to reduce your visibilty. Sorry but having Jedi run around openly everywhere is awful, this is a niche server who is trying to stick with that.

swgr.org

Visibility

swgr.org swgr.org

Explains it pretty well and others have chimed in in various posts how to run heroics even and not get enough to get on the boards. Oh and lastly 1v1 Jedi (really padawan they are not jedi just baby ones at this point) do win if the Padawan knows even a little. Dorry downvote here.
 
Tyr said:
That is not true at all. I play the game and my vis never gets on the boards. You just have to be careful and learn how. You can run 1 or even 2 heroic instances and not get enough vis to get on the BH boards if you learn how. There are also numerous ways to reduce your visibilty. Sorry but having Jedi run around openly everywhere is awful, this is a niche server who is trying to stick with that.

swgr.org

Visibility

swgr.org swgr.org

Explains it pretty well and others have chimed in in various posts how to run heroics even and not get enough to get on the boards. Oh and lastly 1v1 Jedi (really padawan they are not jedi just baby ones at this point) do win if the Padawan knows even a little. Dorry downvote here.
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Agree with this point. I use my Jedi near exclusively for PVE content, I just knew going into it that I had to adjust my play style if I wanted to play the profession that had an optional opt-in warning when I unlocked it. Initially I definitely borked up and ended up getting Bounty Hunted, but haven't since. Even after running end-game content with another Jedi or two on multiple occasions.
 
Sounds like you want the NGE version of jedi.

Perhaps a payoff system that increases everytime you use it and reduces the longer you don't. For example you are on the boards and pay off a corrupt official for 5m. Taken off the boards but those with your mission still have it.

Next time you use the official it's 10m.

It might go back to 5m after 30days.

Dunno. The system works great already and I don't see a need to change it. It has always been a pvp class.
 
How about giving bg missions a toner like they do with smugglers. It just sounds like BH want easy mode. How about we let up two other group members assist a Jedi that is attacked. Everyone keeps thinking all Jedi are pvp builds and they are not.

No one is suggesting NGE anyone trying to use that comment are part of the problem. As for instance, i was in a guild activity and after 2 instances two of our Jedis were on the boards and one of them was killed. The rest of the evening activities changed because of it. Or give jedis mechanics to change their identity to hide from Bhs. How many jedi in tv shows hide for years by doing this. Since you all say in canon there was very few left alive. This actually isn't true, it was most were good at hiding. Look at Obi Wan, he hid for years. They are a lot more numerous then people realize.
 
Pcarley1978 said:
How about giving bg missions a toner like they do with smugglers. It just sounds like BH want easy mode. How about we let up two other group members assist a Jedi that is attacked. Everyone keeps thinking all Jedi are pvp builds and they are not.

No one is suggesting NGE anyone trying to use that comment are part of the problem. As for instance, i was in a guild activity and after 2 instances two of our Jedis were on the boards and one of them was killed. The rest of the evening activities changed because of it. Or give jedis mechanics to change their identity to hide from Bhs. How many jedi in tv shows hide for years by doing this. Since you all say in canon there was very few left alive. This actually isn't true, it was most were good at hiding. Look at Obi Wan, he hid for years. They are a lot more numerous then people realize.
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working as intended , how about you bring one jedi , and the other jedi brings an alt , then yall switch for the next instance problem solved
 
Pcarley1978 said:
How about giving bg missions a toner like they do with smugglers. It just sounds like BH want easy mode. How about we let up two other group members assist a Jedi that is attacked. Everyone keeps thinking all Jedi are pvp builds and they are not.

No one is suggesting NGE anyone trying to use that comment are part of the problem. As for instance, i was in a guild activity and after 2 instances two of our Jedis were on the boards and one of them was killed. The rest of the evening activities changed because of it. Or give jedis mechanics to change their identity to hide from Bhs. How many jedi in tv shows hide for years by doing this. Since you all say in canon there was very few left alive. This actually isn't true, it was most were good at hiding. Look at Obi Wan, he hid for years. They are a lot more numerous then people realize.
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You can tell you have never been a BH hunting a Padawan. First your example is skewed as you have no idea how much visibilty those 2 had before going in. I bet it was not zero because you can do 2 without getting on the boards. Or was there more than 2 padawans? Your example of hiding is spot on because Obi wan did not run around swinging his saber in groups and then go back to his hut for the night to hide. He stayed hidden without that stuff. And a Padawan vs 1 BH is really no contest, BH dies unless the padawan runs or is afk and just crappy. There is a reason 3 BH are allowed to take on 1 Padawan. Your suggestions will screw things up for when FRS, Knight, Inquisitor etc get here. Your other suggestion of allow 2 other group members to help them is goofy as they could be Padawans as well and again there is a reason for the 3v1 and Padawan are supposed to stay hidden.

The system they have is working pretty well and I feel bad if you don't want to learn how to avoid the vis but you are just going in circles and basically saying you want to swing your glowbat with little to no consequences which basically makes the vis system pointless. There are a lot of people willing to help, give advice etc on how to do this yet you reject that.

Edit - And please after all those hours and days on the forums and even Aconite explaining you still come back to this. It isn't going to change like you wanted.

How did this whole thread go from

Motivation To keep the game "realistic". There isn't a problem, just an idea to add some realism to the game.

To all these problems posted?
 
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Rowa said:
There is no way to keep your visibility low other than to just not play the game. Everything you do that is worth doing in the game increases your visibility to the point you are constantly under attack. As I said earlier, I go into an Heroic with low visibility or maybe even no visibility because it is not decreasing when I am at the ranch (only way I have of guessing if I have any or not), and come out with Vader on my butt. Not only that, as stated above, we have no way of knowing what are visibility is or how many points we are getting or losing. So what can I do in the game and yet keep my visibility low? For me, it is not the PvP that I object to, it is the not being able to play for 18 hours.
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What do you even mean with "I can't play the game", you have THREE other toons to play on.
 
No no no no.

Realistically bounties or "Wanted" rewards in movies grow with time or at least stay the same. No one goes back to put a new flyer/notice with a reward reduction as time goes by.

I would say 5% or less of the jedi bounties actually have high vis at the moment for the bh to get breaching charges, and 5% of those actually are in their home to get breached lol.

Most are either in an instance, running around or looking where to log out.
 
Downvoted, multiple ways to check your vis level before getting on the bh boards. Even if you end there you are an alpha class that can easily take down 2-3 bhs. You knew where you were getting into the moment you unlocked jedi, it is not like the unlock process is 4 days long like other servers. This is also the server with the easiest way to evade bhs thanks to the ranch intant travel, if you get enough vis and then you get hunted thats 100% on you.
 
Kazhar said:
Downvoted, multiple ways to check your vis level before getting on the bh boards. Even if you end there you are an alpha class that can easily take down 2-3 bhs. You knew where you were getting into the moment you unlocked jedi, it is not like the unlock process is 4 days long like other servers. This is also the server with the easiest way to evade bhs thanks to the ranch intant travel, if you get enough vis and then you get hunted thats 100% on you.
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Such a weak comment that has gotten extremely old. You know what happens when a BH fails a bounty, they generally get hunted by the person who put the bounty up.

When a smuggler fails a mission they lose underworld faction, plus the amount it cost to get the contraband. Maybe bounty hunters should lose the amount of money the bounty is as a punishment. After all you want it balanced right. Right now the only punishment a bounty hunter loses is the cost of probe droids and time. You want it realistic for Jedi at this time. Guess what enough failed missions at this time especially a failed bounty from the empire would get a bounty hunter executed. After all you want it true to the time frame. It sounds like bounty hunters want to be a bounty hunter with no penalties for failing.
 
Pcarley1978 said:
Such a weak comment that has gotten extremely old. You know what happens when a BH fails a bounty, they generally get hunted by the person who put the bounty up.

When a smuggler fails a mission they lose underworld faction, plus the amount it cost to get the contraband. Maybe bounty hunters should lose the amount of money the bounty is as a punishment. After all you want it balanced right. Right now the only punishment a bounty hunter loses is the cost of probe droids and time. You want it realistic for Jedi at this time. Guess what enough failed missions at this time especially a failed bounty from the empire would get a bounty hunter executed. After all you want it true to the time frame. It sounds like bounty hunters want to be a bounty hunter with no penalties for failing.
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Actually the empire should revoke your bh license for being a shitter if you fail multiple bounties in a row, i like that. But yes it is not equal because bhs are not an alpha class as simple as that. Jedi have to pay the price of their power. Obviously im on board to give jedi incentives to fight back bhs instead of running, hopefully in the future killing a bh yields you frs xp for example.
 
Kazhar said:
Actually the empire should revoke your bh license for being a shitter if you fail multiple bounties in a row, i like that. But yes it is not equal because bhs are not an alpha class as simple as that. Jedi have to pay the price of their power. Obviously im on board to give jedi incentives to fight back bhs instead of running, hopefully in the future killing a bh yields you frs xp for example.
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And bounty hunters pay the price for hunting, they have zero drawbacks at all for hunting. It really should result in the player failing lose how much the bounty it was. If that ends up being 5 million so be it. It is the high cost of bounty hunting. But no zero consequences for failing at all.

No professor in the game outside bountry hunters can make 5 million on a mission, so it's time that there is punishments for failing that. Smugglers get punished so why aren't bounty hunters.
 
Tyr said:
That is not true at all. I play the game and my vis never gets on the boards. You just have to be careful and learn how. You can run 1 or even 2 heroic instances and not get enough vis to get on the BH boards if you learn how. There are also numerous ways to reduce your visibilty. Sorry but having Jedi run around openly everywhere is awful, this is a niche server who is trying to stick with that.

swgr.org

Visibility

swgr.org swgr.org

Explains it pretty well and others have chimed in in various posts how to run heroics even and not get enough to get on the boards. Oh and lastly 1v1 Jedi (really padawan they are not jedi just baby ones at this point) do win if the Padawan knows even a little. Dorry downvote here.
Click to expand...
Again, you are simply saying keep your visibility down by not playing the game. Don't do anything that is fun or worthwhile.
 
jcan0918 said:
working as intended , how about you bring one jedi , and the other jedi brings an alt , then yall switch for the next instance problem solved
Click to expand...
What if your alts are two crafters and an entertainer? Or what if your alt is a healer and the group is already over filled with healers and needs someone who can tank? Putting your alt in the group instead does not always work. As I said previously, I have not suggested that visibility to the extent a Jedi receives it or loses it change at all. But if a Jedi goes to the trouble of not playing or standing at the ranch or their shrine for hours, the ability for the BH to find that Jedi should be more difficult. Not saying take the Jedi off the Boards, only harder to find the Jedi. This is my proposal. Anything else is off topic.

Now to go off topic just a little bit. The ghosting or being forced to not play the game to keep visibility low and avoid a BH does not make sense. I don't care if I am attacked or killed by a BH, other than being a ghost and not being able to play. When I am involved in a group activity, not only does death by BH affect my play, but it affects 7 other people. Why not do away with the ghosting and let the Jedi come back and continue on with their activity and gain more visibility. Or, start off with only one person can take the bounty at 3,000 Vis, at 4,000 Vis it goes up to two BH can take the bounty, 5,000, three BH, etc. But when the visibility goes down, the number of BH taking the bounty should go down. Just don't penalize the Jedi by the ghosting or forcing time not playing the game. Let me reduce my visibility when I can't play. Also, if I am to receive a bonus in reduction of visibilty because I am online at the ranch, then quit knocking me out of the game because I am AFK. Do you really expect me to stand out their twiddling my thumbs for 24 hours or however long it takes to reduce my visibility. And then for what? I am still on the Boards. Again, I would think the BH would want a challenge and would like to see the Jedi stay and fight instead of run off. One of the reasons the Jedi runs off is because they don't want to take the chance of being ghosted.
 
Rowa said:
Again, you are simply saying keep your visibility down by not playing the game. Don't do anything that is fun or worthwhile.
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At this point this is just lying. Many examples have been provided of people playing their Jedi, running Heroics and NOT getting on the boards. And seeing as how you deleted your Jedi why are you here spamming this now? Bascially you are trolling at this point.
 
Pcarley1978 said:
And bounty hunters pay the price for hunting, they have zero drawbacks at all for hunting. It really should result in the player failing lose how much the bounty it was. If that ends up being 5 million so be it. It is the high cost of bounty hunting. But no zero consequences for failing at all.

No professor in the game outside bountry hunters can make 5 million on a mission, so it's time that there is punishments for failing that. Smugglers get punished so why aren't bounty hunters.
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And BH are not an Alpha class. I will ask you the same as I ask Sal there, at this point why are you keeping this going?

You also said "Let me reduce my visibility when I can't play." Showing you don't even know how the system works even with the explanations and links provided
1 per MinuteWhile logged off

So it is already there. Also the vis system is in place to stop this from becoming Jedi Wars which is really what you are asking for.
 
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