Jedi Visibility

Jedi Visibility
This idea/suggestion has been flagged as Not Implemented because of a lack of popularity, lack of interest, lack of feasibility, or other determination by the Development Team, so the suggestion will not be implemented. Once a suggestion has been flagged this way, the decision is final. Although the issue may be raised again in the future after a six month cooldown. A response explanation from the Development Team can be found in the thread.
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Rowa

Proposal
I understand that once a Jedi gets on the Bounty Hunter (BH) boards, they are always on the boards until a BH kills them, no matter how high or low their visibility. Everything else fluctuates depending upon the visibility level, i.e. attacks by NPC, ability to use public transportation, the bank, vendors, etc. As a Jedi reduces their visibility, it should also affect the BH in some way. I have never played BH so I don't know much about how they could be impacted. Some suggestions would be making it harder for the BH to find the Jedi by having the droid that is launched malfunction or give false information. I believe at some point the name of the Jedi is revealed. Don't reveal the name if visibility is low. Have the Jedi's listing on the Boards become random, or reduce the bounty. BH are given the ability to pull a Jedi from their home when visibility is high, give the Jedi the ability to instantly escape when their visibility is low.
Justification
One of the goals of SWGR is to keep the game somewhat realistic. Common sense seems to say that as a Jedi's visibility goes down it would be harder to find that Jedi. This would also put a little bit of a challenge in the game for BH and to a very small degree, reward the Jedi for keeping their visibility low which is the general philosophy of the game towards Jedi in keeping their numbers low. The Jedi's visibility probably won't stay low for long because the game has been designed to make everything a Jedi does increase visibility. For example, initially creatures did not give visibility, but now they do. This by the way is not very realistic at all. Creatures would not be able to report a Jedi. After a Jedi does one of the Heroic instances they get enough visibility to have the NPC start attacking, lose the ability to use public transportation, etc., and get on the BH boards if they should be off. If a Jedi goes through all the trouble of losing their visibility or reducing it, there should be a reduction in the BH's ability to find them. As the Jedi's visibility quickly increases again, the BH would be able to find the Jedi as usual.
Motivation
To keep the game "realistic". There isn't a problem, just an idea to add some realism to the game.
In the interest of realism, when a Jedi reduces visibility, it should be harder for the Bounty Hunter to find them.
 
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Tyr said:
Which shows you still don't listen to folks or even the devs about the how and why of the system. You play hamster wheel and decide to ignore things. When 1 BH is brought up and you can't sustain the point about one you move the goalposts and talk about 3. If they changed it to just 1 BH only they would practically never kill a Jedi.
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Very seldom it is 1. I think all bhs should be red to each other and only the person who gets the kill gets the bounty. It would reduce the gank squads
 
Pcarley1978 said:
Very seldom it is 1. I think all bhs should be red to each other and only the person who gets the kill gets the bounty. It would reduce the gank squads
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See you just did it again. Round and round. So your solution is to "punish" (to use your wording) BH by making so they can only go 1v1 with a Jedi (which they would almost always lose) and have to fight other BH as well to try and claim it. It even sounds goofy and shows you make a choice to ignore the reality of how it works and why again. Why don't you just suggest that they nerf Jedi so they are a normie class and then it could be 1v1 for a BH....sounds goofy right? You want to punish the BH for doing what they are supposed to do. You throw that word punishment around but in fact it is what you are proposing doing, It is supposed to be 3v1 and it used to be worse before they adjusted. Do me a favor and try hunting a Jedi as a BH before you go on and on about something you are deciding to ignore.

I mean this is you and the Dev talking about it in this thread:

Pcarley1978 said:
3 decently good BH with creature handler, even 2 on the same target easily takes down a Jedi
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The data we have is not consistent with this. When we look at encounters between Jedi and Bounty Hunters, Jedi are successful at either evading and reducing visibility or defeating multi-attacker Bounty Hunters in about 60% of encounters, which is within the range we intend and is around the same as it was before the patch.

So they came right out and told you wrong and that this is what they intend and yet you ignore it and continue to basically spam away at this point. What is the point of you going on after this and more has been explained? I know you said you would post every day until it changes but that seems to be not working for you.
 
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Pcarley1978 said:
Very seldom it is 1. I think all bhs should be red to each other and only the person who gets the kill gets the bounty. It would reduce the gank squads
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Let me try and suggest something here that might work. Instead of trying to force this why not simply ask for some Jedi/vis friendly pve content to be added? In fact you could even go so far as to suggest Jedi only or Jedi strength content that is vis friendly. That would spur a discussiona and get a few feathers flying. I mean they have MUS content only so maybe they could....My point is rather than trying to change the entire game why not try to find something else that works with the least disruption? What i just said could be an awful idea but at least it isn't trying to undo and redo stuff that is working as intended.
 
Tyr said:
Let me try and suggest something here that might work. Instead of trying to force this why not simply ask for some Jedi/vis friendly pve content to be added? In fact you could even go so far as to suggest Jedi only or Jedi strength content that is vis friendly. That would spur a discussiona and get a few feathers flying. I mean they have MUS content only so maybe they could....My point is rather than trying to change the entire game why not try to find something else that works with the least disruption? What i just said could be an awful idea but at least it isn't trying to undo and redo stuff that is working as intended.
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I did that before coming to player voice and got attacked over it. It simply for the most part hard core pvpers who want no change. They want Jedi to hit the boards no matter what they do. I think the best solution would be letting 3 bhs still take the mission but maje them hostile to each other. The kill gets the bounty...kinda if like how you see in the TV shows and movies. Very few bounty hunters worked with each other on high priority targets. This way you would have to possibly deal with dying to other BHs and the target.

BHs will never be happy if ajedi have pve content they won't get flagged for. There are certain groups that will run 3 BHs all the time together. Try escape when you have 3 targeting your speeder, then 3 rooting you. That doesn't include if they are CHs, certain. Pets very much turn the tide. A lot of people have complained not being able to heal jedi being attacked as well.
 
Pcarley1978 said:
I did that before coming to player voice and got attacked over it. It simply for the most part hard core pvpers who want no change. They want Jedi to hit the boards no matter what they do. I think the best solution would be letting 3 bhs still take the mission but maje them hostile to each other. The kill gets the bounty...kinda if like how you see in the TV shows and movies. Very few bounty hunters worked with each other on high priority targets. This way you would have to possibly deal with dying to other BHs and the target.

BHs will never be happy if ajedi have pve content they won't get flagged for. There are certain groups that will run 3 BHs all the time together. Try escape when you have 3 targeting your speeder, then 3 rooting you. That doesn't include if they are CHs, certain. Pets very much turn the tide. A lot of people have complained not being able to heal jedi being attacked as well.
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I have suggested it and no one attacked me for it. It has already been explained to you why your idea of 1 BH can't and won't work. And yes there are groups that will run 3 BH because that is how you SHOULD do it if you can. There are also certain people (glances at you) who are no different than the people they accuse of not wanting change by suggesting the complete opposite and making it so Jedi never get killed by a BH. Your all or nothing, black or white thinking really seems to be an issue here as well. Having vis friendly content for Jedi doesn't mean they would never get on the boards it just means there is some content for them. Bascially your entire "suggestions" come down to you don't want to learn how to stay off the boards and you don't want to have your Jedi killed by BH if you get on the boards. You just keep saying them same thing over and over like some mantra and if you say it enough (maybe click your heels 3 times when doing it) poof it will happen. (Edit - you did not suggest new vis friendly content you and Salquod wanted vis removed from existing instances which is different and was explained why that couldn't work. People disagreeing with you is not being attacked either.) Your BH idea won't work either as why would they attack each other? Only a brand new BH might. They would still all attack you.

You have never responded to this -> So they came right out and told you wrong and that this is what they intend and yet you ignore it and continue to basically spam away at this point. What is the point of you going on after this and more has been explained? I know you said you would post every day until it changes but that seems to be not working for you.
 
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One point that I would like to remind everyone of is that no matter what, Jedi numbers need to be controlled. Whether that is through PvP Bounty Hunters or PvE consequences through Vis, having Jedi feel rare and hunted as they were in the CU is a unique approach for our Resto server.

There are many levers that can be pulled to make Visibility and the resulting consequences fun for everyone involved, and that warrants this discussion. It's important to hear what people like/dislike about the current Vis and Bounty system.

However, just keep in mind that the Senate and Staff have made it clear that we don't want glowstick parties or to fall into the same problem as SOE/NGE where Jedi were everywhere, changing the feel of the galactic civil war era, where again, Jedi are supposed to feel nearly extinct.

So it may be best at this point to try to redirect the conversation to be about what kinds of consequences and content you'd like to see as a result of exposing Jedi, rather than it being a conversation about PvPers vs. PvEers
 
Fezix93 said:
One point that I would like to remind everyone of is that no matter what, Jedi numbers need to be controlled. Whether that is through PvP Bounty Hunters or PvE consequences through Vis, having Jedi feel rare and hunted as they were in the CU is a unique approach for our Resto server.

There are many levers that can be pulled to make Visibility and the resulting consequences fun for everyone involved, and that warrants this discussion. It's important to hear what people like/dislike about the current Vis and Bounty system.

However, just keep in mind that the Senate and Staff have made it clear that we don't want glowstick parties or to fall into the same problem as SOE/NGE where Jedi were everywhere, changing the feel of the galactic civil war era, where again, Jedi are supposed to feel nearly extinct.

So it may be best at this point to try to redirect the conversation to be about what kinds of consequences and content you'd like to see as a result of exposing Jedi, rather than it being a conversation about PvPers vs. PvEers
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Bounty hunters seldom worked with each other on high pay out bounties as well. Again will mention, bounty should only go to the one that kills the target, mqke bhs red to each other on a bounty. Also server times in the movies and shows saw people aiding a jedi that was being attacked, yet players can aid them. There are people on the server that go out of there way to ruin Jedi players fun. Such as using guild event plans to camp Jedi and waitinmg for them when thye come out of an instance. I have seen this several times happen. While its not a direct exploitation, it still is. How can guilds plan events when this stuff keep happening, Please dont say it doesn't happened because a lot of people can back me on that. Nothing like going into an instance with a Jedi tank and have gank squads set up at a key location they have no choice to go through.
 
Fezix93 said:
One point that I would like to remind everyone of is that no matter what, Jedi numbers need to be controlled. Whether that is through PvP Bounty Hunters or PvE consequences through Vis, having Jedi feel rare and hunted as they were in the CU is a unique approach for our Resto server.

There are many levers that can be pulled to make Visibility and the resulting consequences fun for everyone involved, and that warrants this discussion. It's important to hear what people like/dislike about the current Vis and Bounty system.

However, just keep in mind that the Senate and Staff have made it clear that we don't want glowstick parties or to fall into the same problem as SOE/NGE where Jedi were everywhere, changing the feel of the galactic civil war era, where again, Jedi are supposed to feel nearly extinct.

So it may be best at this point to try to redirect the conversation to be about what kinds of consequences and content you'd like to see as a result of exposing Jedi, rather than it being a conversation about PvPers vs. PvEers
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I understand why you don't want to see lots kicking around and don't want ot to be the old days and I understand that. At the same time, I feel and ao am not alone on this the consequences have gone to far.

If you want to balance things out then exp should be increased to match other professions. A pvp death takes off a million exp, when you only get 5k a kill and you run out of quests that give big exp ot because a huge grind to get that box you lost if you didn't get enough to not take pvp hit.

Consequences should be on both sides of the coin though. I was in a guild run the other day. Our Jedi tank was killed before even getting into the heroic. Even though this isn't cheating people used discord to set up in a spot that Jedi had to go through and couldn't avoid. Worse it was 3 on 1 with at least 2 of those Bh being hard core pvpers. If the bounty hunters had been red to each other, there is a chance of escaping and maybe being able to kill 1 maybe 2. I feel if BHs on the same Bounty and only the person killing gets the bounty it would be more realistic. I would also lock the BH out of bounty hunting for 18 hours for the ones who fail. I feel it would make those who do not want to pvp a lot more likely to want to play their jedis.

Now for heroics and end game instances with more then 1 Jedi. I am not sure how many times it increases based on Jedis in group. Let's say it it time 2, 3, 4 etc. This needs to be dialed down. Or since yiu don't want Jefi constantly farming Heroics, why not just increase the lockout timer to 24 hour or double what current lockout timers are. Then if you do, you would need to greatly reduce Vis.

The big issue with everything is a lot of jedi who do not actively play Jefi feel forced into pvp content, as much as you say it's the alpha class, you knew what you were getting into, it's the gane mechanics etc. It still doesn't change the way people feel. Most jedi don't care about having to pvp, it would be nice to not be put into it everytime a guild event happens. Would be nice to have more flexibility. Like currently some people have fate of the galaxy bugged and the old man doesn't vanish. He gives vis, I am pretty sure a firce ghost isn't reporting other Jedi especially with it being Obi wan.
 
Pcarley1978 said:
I understand why you don't want to see lots kicking around and don't want ot to be the old days and I understand that. At the same time, I feel and ao am not alone on this the consequences have gone to far.

If you want to balance things out then exp should be increased to match other professions. A pvp death takes off a million exp, when you only get 5k a kill and you run out of quests that give big exp ot because a huge grind to get that box you lost if you didn't get enough to not take pvp hit.

Consequences should be on both sides of the coin though. I was in a guild run the other day. Our Jedi tank was killed before even getting into the heroic. Even though this isn't cheating people used discord to set up in a spot that Jedi had to go through and couldn't avoid. Worse it was 3 on 1 with at least 2 of those Bh being hard core pvpers. If the bounty hunters had been red to each other, there is a chance of escaping and maybe being able to kill 1 maybe 2. I feel if BHs on the same Bounty and only the person killing gets the bounty it would be more realistic. I would also lock the BH out of bounty hunting for 18 hours for the ones who fail. I feel it would make those who do not want to pvp a lot more likely to want to play their jedis.

Now for heroics and end game instances with more then 1 Jedi. I am not sure how many times it increases based on Jedis in group. Let's say it it time 2, 3, 4 etc. This needs to be dialed down. Or since yiu don't want Jefi constantly farming Heroics, why not just increase the lockout timer to 24 hour or double what current lockout timers are. Then if you do, you would need to greatly reduce Vis.

The big issue with everything is a lot of jedi who do not actively play Jefi feel forced into pvp content, as much as you say it's the alpha class, you knew what you were getting into, it's the gane mechanics etc. It still doesn't change the way people feel. Most jedi don't care about having to pvp, it would be nice to not be put into it everytime a guild event happens. Would be nice to have more flexibility. Like currently some people have fate of the galaxy bugged and the old man doesn't vanish. He gives vis, I am pretty sure a firce ghost isn't reporting other Jedi especially with it being Obi wan.
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Since yoy ignore everyone and what they say (at what point does this spam get closed?)

So they came right out and told you wrong and that this is what they intend and yet you ignore it and continue to basically spam away at this point. What is the point of you going on after this and more has been explained? I know you said you would post every day until it changes but that seems to be not working for you
 
Tyr said:
Since yoy ignore everyone and what they say (at what point does this spam get closed?)

So they came right out and told you wrong and that this is what they intend and yet you ignore it and continue to basically spam away at this point. What is the point of you going on after this and more has been explained? I know you said you would post every day until it changes but that seems to be not working for you
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No one has offered any solutions at all. However the constant comments around get better, alpha class, you knew what you were getting into continue to keep coming up. I have suggested several things and yet only one person messaged me. No one has countered any comments to foster a conversation. Perhaps bounties on Jedi should be dropped to max of 2.

Do you have a solution to bounty hunters that use guild event planing as a way to gank a jedi, or sit right outside miraculously being able to find out the exact instance being done. Perhaps camps should be restricted to group members only and only show up if you are grouped on ticket terms. It's these little things that are making it much harder then things need to. I even suggested dropped vis a lot in heroics for a much longer lock out timer for Jedi, this could reduced Jedi farming heroics by quite a bit.
 
The thing is the heroics group had just been formed. There is no way they knew the exact spot the jedi had to go to. There is 5 heroics and they all have very different starting locations. 1 BH getting randomly lucky could happen. 3 very organized is a much different thing. They were waiting for the Jedi to land and there was zero other ways to get to that heroics then the way it was.
 
this will come to you as
Pcarley1978 said:
The thing is the heroics group had just been formed. There is no way they knew the exact spot the jedi had to go to. There is 5 heroics and they all have very different starting locations. 1 BH getting randomly lucky could happen. 3 very organized is a much different thing. They were waiting for the Jedi to land and there was zero other ways to get to that heroics then the way it was.
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this will come to you as a shocker , but alot of times the bhs join the discords from where heroics are planned and/or the same ppl you play with sometimes have bh alts so dont be surprised if the same ppl you play with bh you , anyways give it a rest already
 
jcan0918 said:
this will come to you as

this will come to you as a shocker , but alot of times the bhs join the discords from where heroics are planned and/or the same ppl you play with sometimes have bh alts so dont be surprised if the same ppl you play with bh you , anyways give it a rest already
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So you helpful suggestion is to give it a rest. Player voice is designed to have an open suggestion, yet you won't engage in any ideas at all. Today I suggested a couple viable options and your response was tj drop it. Why do you think other Jefi players that agree with me do not say anything because they know what anti jedi cpmments
 
I think i am done people are more concerned with dropping the thread instead of actually trying to make any real suggestion. I keep hearing things like. Intended as it is supposed to be, get better, never going to change etc. If responding offer actually suggestions that can be looked at.

I suggested give more Jedi exp to offset the pvp exp loss. I suggested less vis with longer timers on jedi to offset the fear of Jedi farming Heroics. Suggested actual penalties for failing BH missions including a 18 hour lock out on bounty hunter mission. Even suggested letting people heal Jedi but have it based on how many vh come after them. Even suggested camps only show up if grouped with the person who put up the camp.

Please if responding add suggestions, arguing back and forth is completely pointless, at least give feed back why certain things will or won't work.
 
-Extra Jedi EXP to offset PvP Exp loss isn't a solution; that's just undermining the PvP Exp loss
-Less vis with longer timers (I'm assuming the lockout timers) limits consequence of using Jedi for multiple instances in a row, while the penalty is just not playing on your Jedi for awhile. It does not limit Jedi farming heroics
-18hr or similar lockout for BHs failing a mission penalizes the weaker class for trying something considered difficult. Rewards for the Jedi who defeat BHs have been discussed on Discord or other PVs.
-Letting people heal Jedi in their groups is part of another discussion regarding group TEFs and how they should work
-Camps only showing up to group members isn't really relevant

Let me ask you a question now: what kind of consequences would you like to see instead of player Bounties?
 
Fezix93 said:
-Extra Jedi EXP to offset PvP Exp loss isn't a solution; that's just undermining the PvP Exp loss
-Less vis with longer timers (I'm assuming the lockout timers) limits consequence of using Jedi for multiple instances in a row, while the penalty is just not playing on your Jedi for awhile. It does not limit Jedi farming heroics
-18hr or similar lockout for BHs failing a mission penalizes the weaker class for trying something considered difficult. Rewards for the Jedi who defeat BHs have been discussed on Discord or other PVs.
-Letting people heal Jedi in their groups is part of another discussion regarding group TEFs and how they should work
-Camps only showing up to group members isn't really relevant

Let me ask you a question now: what kind of consequences would you like to see instead of player Bounties?
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Consequences should be both sides though, as for the timer. This is the very reason why devs said they increased vis in instances so jedi wouldn't farm instances. Longer timers with reduced vis would cover this.

As for Consequences, what can you possible give jedi who already got ungodly amounts of things already to them.

As for BH penalties, all it means is they couldn't bounty hunt for 18 hours. They can still use there characters so this isn't really a heavy consequence.

As for rewards for beating a BH, what could you possible give that will remotely equate to some of the 5 million plus bounties.

Fez I actually have respect for you, you are the only one who even bothered to open a real discussion up. Everyone else was you know what you got into and the other tired worm out arguments.
 
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