Open Hybrid Make Squad Leader Great Again!

Zekeon said:

A lot of the concern with sl buffs being too powerful seems linked with the concern of people going something like x2xx for high yield letting people too easily get that buff in their build. This also seems to be an issue with letting sl buff itself. I really do think the combination of leadership actually working and the solo effectiveness reduction together would be enough to solve these problems. Though I disagree that getting msl should give you the hard cap of leadership, I think you *should* have to gear for it if that's what you want.

For transparency, I really love the idea of sl, I love the idea of a buffing class. I made my sl for group play, but the problem is I can't always get into a group. The restrictions make it feel like my SL is essentially unavailable when I want to do anything alone or don't have a choice but to do something alone. You were able to get around this by having any other account in your group but just now that's just been removed as well.

Frankly, the reason sl is the least mastered profession isn't because it's not fun, or because it's not strong, because it is both of these things in the right hands and in the right situation. The problem is the restriction of play, the "barriers of entry" to fun. When you have 3 character slots nobody wants a character that is only effective and fun when you have one other person in your group, this is especially true for players who play at odd hours compared to the rest of the server population. On live, even without hard restrictions like we have here, SL and the nge Officer were some of the least played classes because they were more effective in groups yet not required for groups like your classic healer might be.

An idea that hasn't been discussed here is the introduction of the reinforcements mechanic that was present on live. Basically officers could summon a "pet" humanoid npc that changed appearance based on your character's faction and you could buff it with your abilities. You could make this the msl feature that allows you to buff while solo. Make it take up your companion slot like a droid or creature, but innately less powerful than either as sl is not really a pet class, it's a group class. There are a number of ways you could implement this, but I will give a couple of examples here:

1. MSL required "Reinforcement pet" (heretofore referred to as "slpet") summonable only while ungrouped and out of combat, banished when joining a group or when a group member enters range (approx 60-100m). The slpet is groupable and a valid group member for activating sl buffs. Similar or lower effectiveness than the super battle droid, buffs have reduced effectiveness.

-Perhaps the simplest implementation. This allows the sl to "simulate" group play but only as msl. In solo pve play, this is still probably not as good as a solo oriented character with a droid, but you can actually use sl abilities solo without making it a pet oriented class like ch. Also, in pvp this gives enemies a counter in killing the pet. A slightly more complex implementation would be to make it so if the slpet dies the buffs are lost but the CDs are reduced or reset so if someone joins your group in the middle of combat your buffs. Also since the buffs are reduced still, group play is still encouraged to reach your full potential.

2. SLpet skill line. This would be much more difficult to engineer mechanically but would elevate the slpet into a more core part of sl. Adjust the skill tree to have a line dedicated to the slpet (not granted at novice) that gives access to the pet to allow solo buffing as well as increasing its effectiveness or granting it some limited abilities as you level the line. Ultimately the pet would be about the same or better than super battle droids, but far away from ch. The slpet becomes part of the sl class identity, the sl preferring it to be almost always active. The slpet can be grouped with for solo buffs or ungrouped to function like a battle droid.

-This is a much more radical way to implement which would change the playstyle of sl across solo and grouped pve or pvp. The skill line approach would allow people levelling sl first to actually be able to progress through solo levelling content like legacy at a similar pace to others, but leadership would also be part of the slpet's stat calculation so you still need msl to have a good pet instead of using a droid. As far as class identity goes, I think this is a really strong implementation.

3. Similar to either previous idea but give the pet a more important role. Make slpet novice sl, but make it a requirement for buffs, like a sort of standard bearer. If the pet dies the buffs go away.

-Basically a way to curb SLs power in pvp by introducing a method of hard countering them. Even if they can revive the pet like CH can it provides an opening for the enemy to attack a group without SL buffs. This also makes "dipping" sl a lot less appealing.

Maybe the idea is outside of the scope of this thread, perhaps outside the scope of pre 1.0 or even 1.0 itself, and require a lot of balancing, but I think it's worth considering. I think it goes without saying but I'll make my stance clear that buffs should have a max range, and preferably if someone leaves the group the buff should fall off and possibly reset the cooldown (though this could create a situation where people tactically drop to change the active buff..., though I don't know who could change it from high yield.) but when you have group members nearby nothing should stop you from buffing them.

There's also the matter of how the SL abilities themselves work, like how you can't just switch the buff to someone else because the CD is so long and they chose to do that instead of a system where it will automatically remove the buff from the previous target, but that is absolutely outside of the scope of this thread.

I think the argument that sl shouldn't be able to do anything without a group is silly. Yes, we know, this is R3. But this is player voice, where people come to make suggestions for changes to R3 and it seems a lot of SL (MSL I should say) players want changes to allow them to play solo if they wish or have no choice. It's no different in spirit than support classes on other games (priests on WoW for example) wanting to be able to do some things solo even if at a slower pace than another build. I do not mind if my sl isn't as good at soloing as other characters, but it is annoying to feel as though I am playing half a character when I do so. What if I want to do legacy or one of the other questlines or badge hunting on that character? Who can I get to follow me around for hours doing that? Nobody.

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DJGonk said:

As it current stands, there is a general consensus among the few dedicated Squad Leaders I have spoken with on Restoration 3 that the profession is far too restrictive. For those unaware, Squad Leaders are able to utilize a single group-wide buff, one single-target buff applied to one member of their group, as well as a targeted debuff applied to enemies in order to better support their groups in combat. However, Squad leaders are only able to apply these buffs and debuffs so long as ALL of the following conditions are met:

• Squad Leaders must be the leader of a group with at least 1 additional player character.
• No droids or holograms are members of the group (with the sole exception of Paint Target).
• EVERYONE in the group must be within 100 meters of the Squad Leader in order to utilize ANY of their abilities (with the sole exception of Paint Target).

If so much as a single one of these conditions are not met, a Squad Leader cannot utilize any of the abilities gained from their profession. The third condition listed above is especially punishing in both group PvP as well as group PvE content, as a single group member incapacitated as the battle shifts away from them could quickly cause a Master Squad Leader to no longer be able to use half of their template. This is especially hurtful in group PvP or higher end PvE content where a single group member being deathblown and cloning effectively gimps Squad Leaders by preventing them from applying new group and single-target buffs as well as the preventing the use of the Called Shot ability. For a profession that requires 121 skill points to master (effectively half of all the skill points available to a character), the Squad Leader profession is extremely limited in terms of using its abilities and gameplay features outside of well coordinated groups.

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