Creature Handler Pet Spawn & Revive Changes

Creature Handler Pet Spawn & Revive Changes
  • Thread starter Thread starter Miau
  • Start date Start date
  • Approved Combat 
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Miau

Miau

Proposal
1. While the Revive Pet bar is visible, the CH is rooted and cannot take any other action.

2. Pets are revived and summoned at 10% HP.

3. Creature summons are allowed in combat.

4. Pet death debuff on Creature Handler. Lasts 5 minutes. Stacks up to 5 times. +100% creature summon time.
my-rendition-of-malakili-the-rancor-keeper-v0-r5l45v4zroze1.jpeg
This should be the icon. :)
Justification
1. Currently can heal and move while reviving pet. Not expected functionality. No opportunity cost for player.

2. If added: If not in danger, healing them up is trivial. If in danger, there is a Action/Mind heal investment required to get the creature combat ready.

3. Leaving combat to store and instantly summon another or fully healed pet fully resets the engagement for that half of the creature handler's template. This is often used in both PvP and PvE. DOTs on CH are not an intuitive counter. Requiring to heal up a summoned pet and having to spawn in a safe location no longer require the arbitrary combat flag to matter.

4. Repeatedly dying creatures leaves the CH open to attack without a pet for longer. Provides incentive for PvP players to target creatures. Adds tactical gameplay for CH in PvE to pull off tank pet if targeted by PvE enemies.
Motivation
Pet death does not matter to creature handlers. In current implementation, it is actually preferable to have the pet die in some cases due to the benefits of instant resummon. Pets are currently ignored in PvP the vast majority of the time. Pets are used as a tank often because there is no problem when they die.
Adjust creature spawn and revive functionality to reflect expected behavior and makes pet death meaningful in both PvE and PvP
 
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*Insert angry Jedi noises at MCM/MCH Bounty Hunters*

Yes. Agreed. Fully. This is a huge issue for PvP and especially Bounty Hunting.
 
Thank you guys.

There is no question that it's a nerf but the heart of the issue is sustain.

Every serious player currently has a CH meaning any change will affects the entire playerbase. Changes like these preserve the stats that so many have worked hard to attain while making CH more tactical and more fun to play and play against.
 
battle rezing pets should just not be a thing, that doesnt even make sense, you should have to be totally out of combat to rez anything or anyone, bringing some thing back from the dead should take time and effort not just a click of a button, I feel like this should have been addressed before nerfing smuggler payouts and buffing BH pay outs, Not sure why BHs get the white glove treatment before everyone else, just seems weird to me. If anything you should be able have a 2nd pet you can call out but you should still have to be out of combat, just like calling a droid or a speeder. Also everyone is a CH because they are over powered. CL 36 pets BE or not should not be able to tank a lvl 85 Silver chevron NPC.
Also, BHs being CL 80 and able to have a maxed out BE pet, is wild to me.
 
Thanks Sica. Removing the ability to revive a pet completely would be too big of a nerf, as once a pet is dead then that entire part of the player's template is now useless.

My suggestions in combination create scenarios for the player to make choices while also solving the fundamental issue of CH existing outside of the attrition/sustain design that all other classes adhere to.

Disable your character for 30s to attempt revive or continue fighting yourself.

Recall your pet before it dies to avoid a pet spawn debuff or continue fighting.

Revive or spawn your pet and spend the action/mind to heal it up from 10% or let it stay dead to fight on.

This approach gives the player agency while the change you suggest actually removed player agency and leaves the only player choice of exiting combat to spawn a fully healed pet which is unintuitive and far too punishing.
 
Miau said:
Thanks Sica. Removing the ability to revive a pet completely would be too big of a nerf, as once a pet is dead then that entire part of the player's template is now useless.

My suggestions in combination create scenarios for the player to make choices while also solving the fundamental issue of CH existing outside of the attrition/sustain design that all other classes adhere to.

Disable your character for 30s to attempt revive or continue fighting yourself.

Recall your pet before it dies to avoid a pet spawn debuff or continue fighting.

Revive or spawn your pet and spend the action/mind to heal it up from 10% or let it stay dead to fight on.

This approach gives the player agency while the change you suggest actually removed player agency and leaves the only player choice of exiting combat to spawn a fully healed pet which is unintuitive and far too punishing.
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i get that, its just abused in BH/ CH combos as they can just press a button to revive the pet and continue to attack without interuption. I have a CH too and i love it just seems out of balance compared to other types of companions
 
I agree and it's not intentional. I can't imagine why they would make it like that intentionally.

That's addressed in point 1 of my suggestions. You should not be able to move, use items, or abilities while reviving a pet.
 
Sicarious said:
i get that, its just abused in BH/ CH combos as they can just press a button to revive the pet and continue to attack without interuption. I have a CH too and i love it just seems out of balance compared to other types of companions
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Other type of companions don't take up 1/2 your build though but I agree it needs changing on the rez piece.
 
Fixing that bug alone doesn't fully address the issue. There must be a mechanic like 10% HP for creatures on spawn because the CH will otherwise simply store and spawn another pet. This would create competitive pressure for having as many strong backup pets as possible; the amount of strong backup pets determining your sustain. This is meta progression where more credits = more sustain = more combat effectiveness, which is an even worse spot for CH to be for player time investment because no other class has meta progression and hatched creatures are no-trade. The sunk cost pressure is already extreme for one 10-30m pet.
 
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Miau said:
Fixing that bug alone doesn't fully address the issue. There must be a mechanic like 10% HP for creatures on spawn because the CH will otherwise simply store and spawn another pet. This would create competitive pressure for having as many strong backup pets as possible; the amount of strong backup pets determining your sustain. This is meta progression where more credits = more sustain = more combat effectiveness, which is an even worse spot for CH to be for player time investment because no other class has meta progression and hatched creatures are no-trade. The sunk cost pressure is already extreme for one 10-30m pet.
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Well I have a feeling changes are already coming and if they toss in the Vitality piece pets are going to take a hit.
 
I'm not suggesting creature stats change at all. They would spawn with 10% of their HP. This serves a few purposes:

1. In PvP, an enemy player now has the opportunity to focus down a newly revived creature before it's fully healed.
2. In PvE, the action/cost investment to heal up a revived creature may not be worth it in all cases which teaches the CH to pull back their pet when death seems like a possibility.
3. Now the player decision cost benefit is instead "Can I revive this creature?" to "Should I revive this creature?" The overarching design of all SWG mechanics is to give the player agency by replacing a Can with a Should where possible because more Should than Cans are what make it a sandbox game.
 
heal 3 is a huge heal and instant though, even if it started at 10 % health when rezed the heal could be put on a macro and negate the 10 % rather quickly
 
Don't think it should root but should defo be a proximity range of the pet for the revive.

Change cost of pet heals on action/mind. More thought than spam, also makes pet stims more useful.

Pets called and stored in combat on a timer (say 5 seconds) , but when recalled have the health status when they were stored. So if almost dead are recalled almost dead.
 
Root or staying in proximity are the same thing because it's a tab target game.

Increasing cost of pet heals begins to affect stat balance which is too big a nerf.

Recalling with same health promotes having a long list of backup creatures at full HP which is very bad for reasons I outlined above.
 
Miau said:
Root or staying in proximity are the same thing because it's a tab target game.

Increasing cost of pet heals begins to affect stat balance which is too big a nerf.

Recalling with same health promotes having a long list of backup creatures at full HP which is very bad for reasons I outlined above.
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Root and proximity aren't, we have mines and gas and traps.

Don't agree with the other points but we don't have to agree
 
There's no effective difference between running in circles around your dead pet while reviving and being rooted on top of it. Either would be an improvement.

CH abilities and stats seem well balanced and nerfing them directly will cause drama since so many players have spent so much time + credits on them. They should be left alone and mechanics changed to introduce the Action/Mind attrition all other classes balance in combat.
 
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Miau said:
There's no effective difference between running in circles around your dead pet while reviving and being rooted on top of it. Either would be an improvement.

CH abilities and stats seem well balanced and nerfing them directly will cause drama since so many players have spent so much time + credits on them. They should be left alone and mechanics changed to introduce the Action/Mind attrition all other classes balance in combat.
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Maybe you can get Los, root is totally different to proximity.
 
I wasn't imagining a large radius you could move around in since you're supposed to be reviving the pet, but sure it could give some LOS behind geometry. Still better than being able to touch the creature and attack / heal / run away like right now.
 
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