Rework avoid incap

Rework avoid incap
This idea/suggestion is Open. You can respond to ask questions or discuss the idea and either vote it up or down if you believe it should or should not be implemented, respectively. Popular suggestions and ideas will be considered by the development team to become reality in-game.
Proposal
Rework "Avoid incap" to be a long cooldown and short duration ability. 15 second duration. 2 Min cooldown. Reduce movement speed reduction to a 25% penalty as a trade off.
Justification
Avoid incap is far too strong in PVE Heroics. Currently it requires no skill and is sustainable for an unhealthy amount of time (Force Feed/Channel/Nimans).
Motivation
The suggested change would elimate the skill trivialising top tier heroics while repurposing it for a meaningful, healthy spot in the current game environment.
Good Day, Ladies and Gentlmen.

Today we are here to discuss the invincible elephant in the room. Avoid incap needs to be reworked.

For too long "AI" has been used to trivialise our hardest PVE content. Tanks rely on a single button press every 25-30 seconds, are then fed force or channel their way out of all damage/skill checks. It's time to make tanking great again.

I propose the ability be reworked to a short duration - high cooldown ability. I think a 15 second duration (half its current duration) and a 2 min cooldown on this ability is reasonable with a buff to the movement speed penalty moving it to 25% or so (open to this number being different). As the ability sits at the master box of Defender, I recognise it needs to be strong, have impact and feel rewarding. However, for too long this has become the solution to all problems in high end content.

I believe my suggestion would change the ability from being an overpowered one-size-fits-all button press to a tool that can be utilised when it is required. Effectively repurposing it to either give healers a break mid-fight or for use as a panic button if things head south fast, putting it in a much healthier spot for game balance.

This will obviously impact PVP/BH too as said changes will significantly reduce the consistency a MDefender can utilitise AI to stay alive. However, as most of the time it merely delays the inevitable, i think the impact should be minimal to outcomes changing. However, i do think that the movement speed penalty should be reduced to balance out the loss the ability would suffer in PVP/BH to help bring it to a healthier place.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk, feel free to flame me in the comments below.
 
Avoid incap is already being reworked. This has been known for over a month now.
Spoke to our FS Senator and he advised a PV be made as no official word on it has been made since we had the open discussion a while back :). This post will also help to give the staff some feedback on where may be a good place for the new balance to land, but thanks for the epic contribution here.
 
get rid of NM heroic's damage being more then any players health pool and problem solved. for both AI and heroic.
All of the NM heroics can be done without AI. But EK, TK, AM, and IG all require MDefender.

Real problem is NM loot is at best on par with HM loot so there's no reason to bother with NM anyway.

I think a simple change of making AI a 45s CD will solve everything.
 
IMO, AI should be an "oh crap" button and not a constant. I've had a couple of ideas around this and put some thought into it but had yet to make a PV, I'm sure there's already ideas brewing if it's being reworked but some of the ideas I had were....

Make AI give a "increased healing to the jedi" type thing, where any incoming healing is increased by a certain amount and therefore easier to keep you up and/or allowing heals to *overheal* the Jedi, similar to the jedi healer jewelry set bonus, but for the Defender exclusively. Additionally if you drop to 0 HP while AI is up, rather than just.... live, you "avoid incapacitation" but healing back up to like say 75% health, AI gets removed or changed to a different buff to help you stay alive but if you drop to 0 hp again that's it.


Very rudimentary idea without numbers to specify the potency because that would be subject to testing and change, but showing that it's possible to keep it unique while reworking it. I'm curious to see what ends up happening in the long run.
 
IMO, AI should be an "oh crap" button and not a constant. I've had a couple of ideas around this and put some thought into it but had yet to make a PV, I'm sure there's already ideas brewing if it's being reworked but some of the ideas I had were....

Make AI give a "increased healing to the jedi" type thing, where any incoming healing is increased by a certain amount and therefore easier to keep you up and/or allowing heals to *overheal* the Jedi, similar to the jedi healer jewelry set bonus, but for the Defender exclusively. Additionally if you drop to 0 HP while AI is up, rather than just.... live, you "avoid incapacitation" but healing back up to like say 75% health, AI gets removed or changed to a different buff to help you stay alive but if you drop to 0 hp again that's it.


Very rudimentary idea without numbers to specify the potency because that would be subject to testing and change, but showing that it's possible to keep it unique while reworking it. I'm curious to see what ends up happening in the long run.
Most of the "oh crap" situations in NM heroics involve 1 tank dying and now the remaining tank has 2 bosses on them. None of these proposed changes would allow the tank to survive long enough for the killed tank to get rezzed and grab agro back. You'd need somewhere between 10-15s of immunity or a 75% incoming damage reduction if AI is supposed to allow a recovery in that situation.
 
None of the Nightmare heroics need Master defender at all, and aconite, I needed to post something witty so I could upvote the PV :X, NM heroics require 2xxx defender thats it.
 
None of the Nightmare heroics need Master defender at all, and aconite, I needed to post something witty so I could upvote the PV :X, NM heroics require 2xxx defender thats it.
Waiting for the witty post :) And umm you don't have to post anything to upvote, just to downvote. Upvote here
 
Down vote , not because of the heroic situation but because i would hate for AI to go the way of Force Cloak
The heroic boss situation is a balance issue but i do agree AI in its current form is way too strong , perhaps a 1min duration, no force regen while active , healing received cut by 75% and a 3 min Cooldown might work
 
None of the Nightmare heroics need Master defender at all, and aconite, I needed to post something witty so I could upvote the PV :X, NM heroics require 2xxx defender thats it.
I hesitate to even respond because I'm 90% sure you're just trolling. But if all you have is 2xxx defender, you might as well be replaced with a normie tank. Force armor isn't enough by itself to tank on NM.
 
I hesitate to even respond because I'm 90% sure you're just trolling. But if all you have is 2xxx defender, you might as well be replaced with a normie tank. Force armor isn't enough by itself to tank on NM.
He isn't trolling, you don't need defender anywhere in this game at all, we run NM without it without issue all the time. But let's stay focused <3 just want to stay focused on AI trivialising difficulty rather than anythign else, more about skill floor being very low :)
 
We've been doing NM heroics since January with nothing more than 3xxx defender, and that 3rd point is just because there's nothing else to spend the point on. Force armour is completely fine to run/tank everything better than normies.

AI exists to cheese in its current state or just be a crutch to bad gameplay, lets make it impactful to use
 
I'll take your word for it. But if x4xx Enhancer is better than the entire defender profession other than the taunt. Force armor needs a big time nerf.
or we can make impactful changes to make the defender buttons feel good to press. I've always thought defender should be more about parry/reflect and not just a damage sponge. Enhance always felt like the damage sponge you can either take less damage or use the power to manipulate shit via buffs/debuffs.

At some point I wanted to make the defender 3 set ability base line, give them saber reflect and give MLS something more focused on actual LS damage not "reflect"
 
We've been doing NM heroics since January with nothing more than 3xxx defender, and that 3rd point is just because there's nothing else to spend the point on. Force armour is completely fine to run/tank everything better than normies.

AI exists to cheese in its current state or just be a crutch to bad gameplay, lets make it impactful to use
this means absolutely nothing , why does it bother you other groups use a master defender with AI for whatever content they want to do ?
A massive AI nerf wont hurt the players you think its going to impact , it will impact those "low skill" players who will then be turned off by yet another nerf to Jedi
Its almost as if you don't want "low skill" players getting any loot from nightmare heroics just so you can feel ELITE
 
this means absolutely nothing , why does it bother you other groups use a master defender with AI for whatever content they want to do ?
A massive AI nerf wont hurt the players you think its going to impact , it will impact those "low skill" players who will then be turned off by yet another nerf to Jedi
Its almost as if you don't want "low skill" players getting any loot from nightmare heroics just so you can feel ELITE
Like I said AI is nothing but cheese, there's little to no gameplay and this bleeds into other areas of the game, why can't we make it just as good and not as stupid?

I'm actually massively against difficulty in general, especially when it comes to useful items if you want to encourage more people to play it really believe it comes from accessibility to locking things behind "hard mode" doesn't make sense to me. If people really want to brag about doing shit then have some time trials or something with w/e titles or skins.