Open GCW PvP Special Forces Loot Multiplier

colt45 · Aug 5, 2023

Modota · Aug 5, 2023

Aenith said:
Thanks for concreting every point i made lol.

Not sure I “concreted” your points. But sure. Point being there is no reason to be afraid to pvp, and it seems chupa is trying to make it even more worthwhile.

EthavanCrowe · Aug 5, 2023

So, aside from the argument that's as old as time that always sounds elitist and is typically people that refuse to step into other peoples' shoes, what impact would this have on the economy? This has potential to be bad for the economy as it would give PvPers the control of pricing while PvEers with little time on their hands would see a reduction of their market gain through no fault of their own. And that will be the majority of PvEers, as very few PvEers will feel like this is worth flagging up to PvP for. Others will just quit.

I think the answer has already been shown in the MMO industry: PvP needs to have PvP rewards. Introduce a PvP stat that becomes viable as soon as you flag up, then along with PvP rewarded gear that has resists for that particular stat that exists only in PvP and you'll have incentive to PvP so that you can get said PvP gear.

Then, any PvEer that's on the fence and even ever would flag up will. Otherwise, you're just trying to force it.

plegs · Aug 5, 2023

EthavanCrowe said:
So, aside from the argument that's as old as time that always sounds elitist and is typically people that refuse to step into other peoples' shoes, what impact would this have on the economy? This has potential to be bad for the economy as it would give PvPers the control of pricing while PvEers with little time on their hands would see a reduction of their market gain through no fault of their own. And that will be the majority of PvEers, as very few PvEers will feel like this is worth flagging up to PvP for. Others will just quit.

I think the answer has already been shown in the MMO industry: PvP needs to have PvP rewards. Introduce a PvP stat that becomes viable as soon as you flag up, then along with PvP rewarded gear that has resists for that particular stat that exists only in PvP and you'll have incentive to PvP so that you can get said PvP gear.

Then, any PvEer that's on the fence and even ever would flag up will. Otherwise, you're just trying to force it.

I think it would help the economy, more things to be sold and bought. If someone swears against doing PvP they could still buy the item. Same thing goes for high end PvE rewards/loot, nothing is stopping me from buying looted items from those instances.

RoHRemis · Aug 5, 2023

The percentage of PVP inclined folks is so low, I doubt it would make a significant impact on the economy as a whole

EthavanCrowe · Aug 5, 2023

plegs said:
I think it would help the economy, more things to be sold and bought. If someone swears against doing PvP they could still buy the item. Same thing goes for high end PvE rewards/loot, nothing is stopping me from buying looted items from those instances.

I was talking about the *seller*, not the buyers. The PvEers making their living off of farming those things, once the market becomes more flooded by the arguably unfair advantage of performing the very same task, will see a reduction in cpu.

EthavanCrowe · Aug 5, 2023

RoHRemis said:
The percentage of PVP inclined folks is so low, I doubt it would make a significant impact on the economy as a whole

But the percentage of those that already PvP can make more bank on a PvE function simply because they PvP.

shintufelper · Aug 5, 2023

My personal opinion is PvP should be motivated by PvP systems.

The reason space has the overt token buff is due to the fact that there’s only one other reason to PvP: the hourly battles.

Ground by contrast has more rewards, more currency systems, and an entire base and control system with impact to motivate PvP. It doesn’t really need the same bandaid space did.

Kazhar · Aug 5, 2023

PvPing is very pricey specially at high levels, (not talking about gear itself but consumables), so that "unfair" advantage you said also comes with expenses (stims, foods, condition lost on wep/armor, speeder repairs, etc...). It is not any different from high end PvE, you can be rewarded with nice loot when you complete "high" difficulty dungeons that many other people cannot complete and you could say that's "unfair" as well.

jacksabib · Aug 5, 2023

EthavanCrowe said:
So, aside from the argument that's as old as time that always sounds elitist and is typically people that refuse to step into other peoples' shoes, what impact would this have on the economy? This has potential to be bad for the economy as it would give PvPers the control of pricing while PvEers with little time on their hands would see a reduction of their market gain through no fault of their own. And that will be the majority of PvEers, as very few PvEers will feel like this is worth flagging up to PvP for. Others will just quit.

I think the answer has already been shown in the MMO industry: PvP needs to have PvP rewards. Introduce a PvP stat that becomes viable as soon as you flag up, then along with PvP rewarded gear that has resists for that particular stat that exists only in PvP and you'll have incentive to PvP so that you can get said PvP gear.

Then, any PvEer that's on the fence and even ever would flag up will. Otherwise, you're just trying to force it.

On the contrary, I think this proposal identifies something that I I don't think a lot of the PVE only crowd seem to realize: There are no purely PVP players. There's just players whos willingness to go SF exists on a spectrum. Almost nobody will go SF for no reason. The intention of this is to give further incentive to roam around SF and to further ingrain a theme that I think works very well in online games: With more risk, comes more reward.

I find the rhetoric about "wanting more noobs to pwn" to be ridiculous because it ignores the reality of player choice. We're not talking about major rewards here, just slight nudges to drive players to take more risk when they feel like it.

This proposal is not a crazy idea that has not been tried in other games. New World does the exact same thing. WoW has done a similar thing. And what you'll find is giving a slight bump to loot luck, or extra abilities/talents will get more people to flag up and it also further drives people to do PVE. It incentivizes people to play the game.

I'm a huge proponent of removing barriers to playing the game and adding more incentives to playing the game. I think this fits in a way that's optional, fair, and hurts nobody.

It has my support.

Aenith · Aug 5, 2023

shintufelper said:
My personal opinion is PvP should be motivated by PvP systems.

The reason space has the overt token buff is due to the fact that there’s only one other reason to PvP: the hourly battles.

Ground by contrast has more rewards, more currency systems, and an entire base and control system with impact to motivate PvP. It doesn’t really need the same bandaid space did.

The avg population of nearly every mmo that pvp is between 10-15%. It's really no different here. On a server with 50k that's not an issue. Here incentives aren't a bandaid, it keeps pvp alive. Pvp isn't my favorite at all, I'm one of the 85%, and that's exactly why i said any boost to draw pve folks in has to be substantial. Pvp perks won't do it. What do i care about pvp weapons if i don't pvp?

shintufelper · Aug 5, 2023

Aenith said:
The avg population of nearly every mmo that pvp is between 10-15%. It's really no different here. On a server with 50k that's not an issue. Here incentives aren't a bandaid, it keeps pvp alive. Pvp isn't my favorite at all, I'm one of the 85%, and that's exactly why i said any boost to draw pve folks in has to be substantial. Pvp perks won't do it. What do i care about pvp weapons if i don't pvp?

Understandable, but at the sametime making being pvp more efficient for pve content forces a lot of pve player's hand. If its always better to do something while pvp flagged, this might as well be a pvp server at that point or you're just wasting your time grinding stuff while not pvp comparitively.

RoHRemis · Aug 5, 2023

I'd also like to point out that since it's PVP, people won't just be able to free farm 24/7. Rewarding risk is good game design.

Many people still do duty missions covert, so arguing that rewarding PVP is invalidating PVE does not seem to hold true.

shintufelper · Aug 5, 2023

RoHRemis said:
I'd also like to point out that since it's PVP, people won't just be able to free farm 24/7. Rewarding risk is good game design.

Many people still do duty missions covert, so arguing that rewarding PVP is invalidating PVE does not seem to hold true.

In the case of space, being pvp doubles the currency reward of missions. It does not double the loot drop chances, or credit chip values, etc. Currently being overt doubles faction rewards, which is the equivalent. Adding this whole increasing basic loot chances etc is not equivalent.

RoHRemis · Aug 5, 2023

shintufelper said:
In the case of space, being pvp doubles the currency reward of missions. It does not double the loot drop chances, or credit chip values, etc. Currently being overt doubles faction rewards, which is the equivalent. Adding this whole increasing basic loot chances etc is not equivalent.

Those tokens can be exchanged for any type of ship component, which is way more valuable than most GCW rewards.

shintufelper · Aug 5, 2023

RoHRemis said:
Those tokens can be exchanged for any type of ship component, which is way more valuable than most GCW rewards.

In credits maaaybe, in actual usefulness, not really its 95% junk. GCW space tokens are easily 100:1 more valuable than duty tokens even in space.

colt45 · Aug 5, 2023

EthavanCrowe said:
I was talking about the *seller*, not the buyers. The PvEers making their living off of farming those things, once the market becomes more flooded by the arguably unfair advantage of performing the very same task, will see a reduction in cpu.

On the contrary I'm seeing more opportunity for sandbox gameplay interactions and even RP.
You see people from the enemy faction crashing your farm because they are SF? And what if you have 0 PvP capability or intertest?
Signal flare some ally PvPrs, let them know who was farming what SF and when. Have them assemble a hit squad for you.

EthavanCrowe · Aug 5, 2023

colt45 said:
On the contrary I'm seeing more opportunity for sandbox gameplay interactions and even RP.
You see people from the enemy faction crashing your farm because they are SF? And what if you have 0 PvP capability or intertest?
Signal flare some ally PvPrs, let them know who was farming what SF and when. Have them assemble a hit squad for you.

And I think that's wishful thinking and has already shown to not be reality. So far, things have been implemented under the guise of "PvEers will call in PvPers" and that has yet to come to any kind of significant fruition. Think past the needs of the few and think more about the needs of the many.

RoHRemis · Aug 5, 2023

This has actually been happening quite a lot in 1.1. Imperials are coordinating and cooperating in ways they never did before.

EthavanCrowe · Aug 5, 2023

RoHRemis said:
This has actually been happening quite a lot in 1.1. Imperials are coordinating and cooperating in ways they never did before.

Among the few, yes. Nudging PvEers that are on the fence at the expense of the vast majority on the WHOLE SERVER is the perspective I'm coming from here.
There are too many PvEers that really aren't even buddy buddy with any PvPers, much less even in Discord to understand what's happening to their bottom line. They certainly aren't going to call in PvPers.

jacksabib · Aug 5, 2023

EthavanCrowe said:
Among the few, yes. Nudging PvEers that are on the fence at the expense of the vast majority on the WHOLE SERVER is the perspective I'm coming from here.
There are too many PvEers that really aren't even buddy buddy with any PvPers, much less even in Discord to understand what's happening to their bottom line. They certainly aren't going to call in PvPers.

I don't understand how giving an optional incentive (With real tradeoffs and consequences) to one set of players is taking away from another.

I also think that a game system actively rewarding people for participating in more facets of the game is a good thing and that the mindset of we should all live in our own walled off villages is a bad thing.

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Open GCW PvP Special Forces Loot Multiplier

colt45

Modota

EthavanCrowe

plegs

RoHRemis

EthavanCrowe

EthavanCrowe

shintufelper

Kazhar

jacksabib

Aenith

shintufelper

RoHRemis

shintufelper

RoHRemis

shintufelper

colt45

EthavanCrowe

RoHRemis

EthavanCrowe

jacksabib