Revert the Bacta Toss CD Change

fireeubi · Jun 25, 2025

I am wanting to get community input about the change to the Bacta Toss and Bacta shot sharing the same cd.

Dagis · Saturday at 11:22 PM

Glorfindel said:
Imagine being a senator and thinking a healer class should be balanced against a dps class. What's next? Do we need to make sure merchants are balanced against entertainers? September can't come soon enough.

The problem with swg and a healer class is that everyone can heal.

It just makes it even more aids and boring when no one dies.

I can understand the change, I appreciate that it will cause frustration though.

But if dps here actually just did dps and not dps, tank and heals then you kinda have a point.

But sadly this is swg so every player can do all at once.

Which breaks the typical ideal behind the trinity.

Although attacking someone on here isn’t really good form and certainly not the forum for that.

Fezix93 · Saturday at 11:35 PM

Glorfindel said:
Imagine being a senator and thinking a healer class should be balanced against a dps class. What's next? Do we need to make sure merchants are balanced against entertainers? September can't come soon enough.

Imagine thinking that voting me out is somehow going to change Dev intention. Senators don't get to just dictate what they want; it has to make sense for the health of the game.

It doesn't matter "who" says it. Keep the game balanced and fun. It's that simple

Glorfindel · Saturday at 11:43 PM

Dagis said:
The problem with swg and a healer class is that everyone can heal.

It just makes it even more aids and boring when no one dies.

I can understand the change, I appreciate that it will cause frustration though.

But if dps here actually just did dps and not dps, tank and heals then you kinda have a point.

But sadly this is swg so every player can do all at once.

Which breaks the typical ideal behind the trinity.

Although attacking someone on here isn’t really good form and certainly not the forum for that.

If you think that no one dies when a healer is involved, that goes to show you only do 2v2, 3v3 type fights. That's not what this game is designed for. Max group size is 8 for a reason.

I truly feel bad for people who play EU time zone who rarely get to participate in larger battles. But balancing the game around that experience isn't going to make the experience better for the most amount of people.

Tyr · Saturday at 11:50 PM

Glorfindel said:
If you think that no one dies when a healer is involved, that goes to show you only do 2v2, 3v3 type fights. That's not what this game is designed for. Max group size is 8 for a reason.

I truly feel bad for people who play EU time zone who rarely get to participate in larger battles. But balancing the game around that experience isn't going to make the experience better for the most amount of people.

But you seem to miss the point. They try to balance for the small and large. If they did what you say and only balanced for large it would hurt the solo and small group folks. Dagis is right on this. Oh and trying to balance only for pvp gets old as well when the pve players take it in the teeth time after time for a small percent of the server population. Let's not forget the BH 1v1 with people that needs to be considered along with the BH 3v1 Jedi as well. It is not as black and white as you paint it.

Glorfindel · Saturday at 11:56 PM

Tyr said:
But you seem to miss the point. They try to balance for the small and large. If they did what you say and only balanced for large it would hurt the solo and small group folks. Dagis is right on this. Oh and trying to balance only for pvp gets old as well when the pve players take it in the teeth time after time for a small percent of the server population. Let's not forget the BH 1v1 with people that needs to be considered along with the BH 3v1 Jedi as well. It is not as black and white as you paint it.

Healers are irrelevant for BHs. I agree about PvE. The person behind this change doesn't even run heroics.

If you can come up with a solution to balance healer for both 8v8 and 3v3, I'm all ears!

Tyr · Sunday at 12:21 AM

Glorfindel said:
Healers are irrelevant for BHs. I agree about PvE. The person behind this change doesn't even run heroics.

If you can come up with a solution to balance healer for both 8v8 and 3v3, I'm all ears!

If I could I would be a Dev or run for the Senate. I don't envy any of them because no matter what they do, there will always be a small group that will not like it. (Oh and the BH is relevant for those that have healing with their BH and for upcoming changes with BH as well)

fireeubi · Monday at 12:37 AM

So I don't think comparing having 4xxx CM to being a dedicated healer is a good comparison. That is apples and oranges. Sure most people can have some healing at least enough to keep themselves alive for doing quite a bit in game. Harder content requires more healing and people such as for heroics. Everyone gets to build and play what they want. That is what I would think the vision would be for any server that has as many professions and such.

This change is just pushing the return to if you want to be semi-decent at anything you have to have healing in your build such as 4xxx CM so you have the better bacta toss and spray. This just restricts the ability for other professions picking up extra abilities because now they need to have the healing. PVP and PVE this change hurt. It effectively removes a heal or you suffer an extremely long CD in comparison. Why do other professions not have to suffer shared cd's just the same as the healing cd? Not everything can be balanced for 1v1 all the way to 8v8. I'm not a hard core pvp or nightmare heroic runner but I can for sure tell you I do not enjoy or like the change. So far the biggest thing I've seen this change do is allow for more people to roll healer for pvp groups to where you can't kill anyone and it turns fights into a who can have more people logged in that want to play healers which seems to be something one faction has had a lot more success of finding even though most of them complain about having to heal. (at least that i've talked to)

Fezix93 said:
To be clear, I like the idea of a dedicated healer and it was something I pushed for and balanced when I was the Support Senator, but no profession or role (except Jedi, but that's a different thing entirely) should be so out of balance that it can't be killed 1v1 or 2v1 like you are describing.

So my response to this part specifically is the fact that I watch fights that are 1v1 all the way up to 3 maybe 4v1 and yet people are able to survive long enough to call for help, win the fight, or whatever the situation is because they chain multiple defensives and such. Is that balanced in the big picture? Why is it ok for a Mando BH or BH ranger whatever some of these builds are that can just stand in the middle of everyone not an issue but the healer that can literally only do one thing (heal) the issue? I don't see how this helped balance anything personally.

Simply put this change erased the only chance healers had and removed the balanced aspect. A full healer should be able to survive and keep themselves alive 1v1 or 1v2. That is literally the only thing they can do. If that is an issue then it sounds like there needs to be some better ways to counter healing such as better heal cuts or stackable debuffs something.

Lets not insult the devs though please. They work asses to the bone trying to make this server better for all. Senators find ideas and suggestions to bring to the devs so they aren't constantly being message bombed with things. I do think this change was heavily pushed for from someone in the senate based on discord conversations about it so I can at least understand some of Glorfindels frustration. Playing and having a healer main I still hate this change.

Fezix93 · Monday at 4:16 AM

There's a lot of theory here that doesn't hold up to practice.

See the part about reserving judgement for months to see how things actually played out. This change clearly did NOT force 4xxxCM builds, nor did it take away the value of rolling a dedicated healer.

-Groups are still able to complete nightmare heroics.
-PvP groups without a healer generally get stuffed by the team with the healer

Those are both facts that are objectively true and backed up by metrics.

Let's stop with the cope arguments please and focus on fact. This change went through the proper process of feeling out the change instead of reacting emotionally. I hear what you are saying on paper, but it doesn't hold up in practice.

Asking for a healer to be balanced around guaranteed survival in a 2v1 is ludicrous, and would break balance of very many combat mechanics in both PvP and PvE.

Glorfindel · Monday at 5:44 AM

Fezix93 said:
There's a lot of theory here that doesn't hold up to practice.

See the part about reserving judgement for months to see how things actually played out. This change clearly did NOT force 4xxxCM builds, nor did it take away the value of rolling a dedicated healer.

-Groups are still able to complete nightmare heroics.
-PvP groups without a healer generally get stuffed by the team with the healer

Those are both facts that are objectively true and backed up by metrics.

Let's stop with the cope arguments please and focus on fact. This change went through the proper process of feeling out the change instead of reacting emotionally. I hear what you are saying on paper, but it doesn't hold up in practice.

Asking for a healer to be balanced around guaranteed survival in a 2v1 is ludicrous, and would break balance of very many combat mechanics in both PvP and PvE.

The fact of the matter is that Rebels have rolled a half dozen new healers since this change came out - which is exactly what I predicted would happen. You can't change the amount of healing that is needed in a fight without changing the amount of damage that is dealt. All the people who fantasized about this change reducing the healing in fights were just wrong. The only thing it did is force more people to play healer in order to compensate for their weaker heals. And yes, when experienced players are asked, 4xxx CM is still recommended for most builds. Whether people follow that advice is beside the point.

There is one part of the healer change, however, that I did not foresee initially. Namely, in some fights the nerf to revitalization is actually more impactful than the loss of a heal. In longer fights, healers become the only class in the game that actually has to consider the action/mind cost of using their abilities as opposed to simply using the best skill available. While, I'm not opposed to this in principle, if it's going to be applied to healers, it should be applied to dps classes as well. I want to see action bars hitting 0 and staying there in longer fights. However, in practice the revitalization nerf actually gets passed off onto the SL and effectively nerfs SLs by requiring them to run boost morale for the sole sake of the healer. This means they can't run call to arms as often and the group as a whole takes more damage. Therefore, this change also increases the need for more healers. That being said, I'm not opposed to SLs being more dynamic and having to pay more attention to their short buffs instead of just putting it up on a macro.

Regarding nightmare heroics - many groups are running a half healer (MCM) in addition to the full healer in order to retain the same success rate they previously had with just a full healer. This is especially helpful in IG-88 and AM where the size of the room is very punishing to healers who just lost 1/3 of their long range single target heals. It is true that many groups are still completing NM heroics. Many groups could even 7-man NM heroics. But that's not really the point. The point is that it made NM heroics more difficult without any conversation (at least that I was aware) that was suggesting NM heroics were too easy and needed to be made more difficult.

fireeubi · Monday at 6:43 AM

Fezix93 said:
There's a lot of theory here that doesn't hold up to practice.

See the part about reserving judgement for months to see how things actually played out. This change clearly did NOT force 4xxxCM builds, nor did it take away the value of rolling a dedicated healer.

-Groups are still able to complete nightmare heroics.
-PvP groups without a healer generally get stuffed by the team with the healer

Those are both facts that are objectively true and backed up by metrics.

Let's stop with the cope arguments please and focus on fact. This change went through the proper process of feeling out the change instead of reacting emotionally. I hear what you are saying on paper, but it doesn't hold up in practice.

Asking for a healer to be balanced around guaranteed survival in a 2v1 is ludicrous, and would break balance of very many combat mechanics in both PvP and PvE.

I did not say guaranteed survival. Now should a healer be able to last a while and be annoying......yes. If the dps professions are able to run whatever build get extra defensives cc heal cut mind cut kd's how is that not far superior and out of balance compared to someone with pretty close to 0 offensive ability? Dedicated healer wasn't broken or unbalanced before the change. They were strong and had an extra ability that can't be used now. They should be strong in pvp and pve.

I'm going to guess that most of the groups running NM content have people with healing built into specs along with the healer and healer helper and I'm sure that content will get completed because well loot. In pvp I know its pushing people to either pick up 4xxxCM or you're going to not have nearly as good a time. I guess the best coping was just having lots of people that were willing or wanting to roll healers so the fights in pvp aren't boring when/if people actually flag and fight. Seems like pvp is simply who has more healers on or if you can't get the healers then get the rangers and folks that can 2 shot the other groups healers. The tanking abilities of some classes is way more ludicrous than any healer. They can keep themselves alive no problem all while running around pumping damage while the healer....well healers just don't need that ability because it was to overpowered to just simply be able to heal.

I just want to know when defensive abilities will start sharing cd's or the other professions start getting this same treatment. That would be balanced and fair since two professions that provide two different skills are lumped together now. I'm sure we could find plenty of things that need some attention for that.

I already know that this conversation won't go anywhere productive because suggestions or questions get ignored and then cherry pick parts you want to argue. DPS classes need to be changed to reflect as mentioned previously. Simply still being able to complete content after changing the group comp and ensuring that people fit into the group is taking away from the game and the enjoyment. It blocks content unless you want to min/max and ensure that you fit. You have plenty of cope arguments and opinions also. We all do I'm pretty sure. Should still be able to have a discussion about ways to improve and provide meaningful responses besides oh its the copium get over it and move on. At this point the arguing over this has done nothing meaningful and just takes away from any hope that change is possible.