Change several resource cap/gates back to Live, SOE, rates at the time of the NGE

Change several resource cap/gates back to Live, SOE, rates at the time of the NGE
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This idea/suggestion is Open. You can respond to ask questions or discuss the idea and either vote it up or down if you believe it should or should not be implemented, respectively. Popular suggestions and ideas will be considered by the development team to become reality in-game.
This prefix is applied by a Galactic Senator when they are officially sponsoring a post for consideration by the Development Team.
savacc

savacc

Proposal
A Gethub user changed several resource caps, in 2016, for SWG-Source that Resto is now using.
I propose Resto revert all those changes (commits) back to the Live, SOE, version. Specifically:
Steel
CR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
MA 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 400
CD 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 650
Aluminum
DR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
CR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
HR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
UT 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 900
SR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 900
CD 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
Copper
DR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 700
CR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
HR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 650
UT 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
SR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
Siliclastic Ore
DR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 700
UT 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 700
SR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 600
Ferrous Metal
CR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
MA 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 600
CD 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 650
Non Ferrous Metal
DR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
CR 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 800
UT 1 - 1000, revert to 1 - 900
Justification
The Live game and every other current SWG server using SWG-Source code use the original resource caps. Resto is the only server using these changes (commits)
Near as I can tell, the Resto devs were unaware of this and went Live with it.
Undoing these changes (commits) would put Resto back to operating like players remember things being on Live and what they are used to on other current servers.
Motivation
Several schematics will improve, anything using steel and CD will be easier to cap.
Mass on crafted SW chassis will see a noticeable improvement. Currently we come nowhere near to capping mass. With these, we will be able to cap mass on chassis (with the right resources).
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Zoso said:
so you're against this change because it will make some resource intensive consumables easier to craft?
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I never said whether I was for or against this change. I was merely pointing out that there are professions that are more impacted by the current state of things than others. You can't just look at one or two professions because those happen to be the ones you're most familiar with. For example, Chefs won't ever feel the impact of a potential change here because none of their schematics use JTL resources. Before any change is made, people need to understand the impact of that change.
Selfishly speaking, I'd love to see this change go through because it would make tons of my products easier to make higher quality, but with the influx of higher quality products, the economy would naturally slide downward. Like Savaac, I learned the system and adapted to it, so I don't have a big issue with how the system works right now. Time is the equalizer here, eventually high quality JTL resources will spawn... you just have to be lucky enough to be around when they do.
 
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jt26077 said:
I never said whether I was for or against this change. I was merely pointing out that there are professions that are more impacted by the current state of things than others. You can't just look at one or two professions because those happen to be the ones you're most familiar with. For example, Chefs won't ever feel the impact of a potential change here because none of their schematics use JTL resources. Before any change is made, people need to understand the impact of that change.
Selfishly speaking, I'd love to see this change go through because it would make tons of my products easier to make higher quality, but with the influx of higher quality products, the economy would naturally slide downward. Like Savaac, I learned the system and adapted to it, so I don't have a big issue with how the system works right now. Time is the equalizer here, eventually high quality JTL resources will spawn... you just have to be lucky enough to be around when they do.
Click to expand...

The right resources more than likely will never spawn. This is the reason the gates were not changed like this on live
 
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Zoso said:
so you're against this change because it will make some resource intensive consumables easier to craft?
Click to expand...
What is it with some folks always trying to make everything that is even remotely difficult easier? Sorry but resources being rare at times was put into the game for a reason and is a part of the overall dependency design they had. Why not just get rid of number completely and just make it you need X steel type. But that would be to hard for someone and it would get changed to just steel. And on and on. Lets get rid of anything rare while we are at it. Yes it is a pain to wait for really good resources and you try to stock up as much as you can but eventually it runs out, something better drops, etc. Lets be real careful with the dumbing down piece as that is part of what killed SWG.
 
Zoso said:
The right resources more than likely will never spawn. This is the reason the gates were not changed like this on live
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Wrong. If you look at what has spawned over time you will see some really nice stuff. But as someone pointed out earlier this sounds like just wanting it now now now without regards to impact on others. Frustration tolerence low in this one it seems yes.
 
Tyr said:
What is it with some folks always trying to make everything that is even remotely difficult easier? Sorry but resources being rare at times was put into the game for a reason and is a part of the overall dependency design they had. Why not just get rid of number completely and just make it you need X steel type. But that would be to hard for someone and it would get changed to just steel. And on and on. Lets get rid of anything rare while we are at it. Yes it is a pain to wait for really good resources and you try to stock up as much as you can but eventually it runs out, something better drops, etc. Lets be real careful with the dumbing down piece as that is part of what killed SWG.
Click to expand...
it's not dumbing down if you're just restoring the code to how it was on live. An error was introduced and we found a way to fix it. To cap a ship chassis you need like 3 or 4 perfect spawns and the chances of that happening are slim to none no matter how long you wait.
 
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Example of the Steel/Alum example listed

Steel CR 996 8/7/23
Steel MA 999 12/4/22
Steel CD 996 2/17/22

Alum DR 999 1/27/23
Alum CR 994 5/1/24
Alum HR 995 9/22/22
Alum UT 1000 4/18/22
Alum SR 987 6/21/24
Alum CD 1000 6/28/22
 
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[/td]​
Zoso said:
it's not dumbing down if you're just restoring the code to how it was on live. An error was introduced and we found a way to fix it. To cap a ship chassis you need like 3 or 4 perfect spawns and the chances of that happening are slim to none no matter how long you wait.
Click to expand...
But this isn't just about a ship chasis. I would want to see the impacts of this across an , and this is important, already established system and economy first. I would also like to see if it would be better to change the schem/requirements than change the drops or maybe a combo of both.
 
Tyr said:
[/td]​

But this isn't just about a ship chasis. I would want to see the impacts of this across an , and this is important, already established system and economy first. I would also like to see if it would be better to change the schem/requirements than change the drops or maybe a combo of both.
Click to expand...
it's been shown other than ship parts this would only affect PSGs and bio engineer consumables. well I think PSGs don't count because you don't have enough points to cap energy and recharge anyway
 
Zoso said:
it's been shown other than ship parts this would only affect PSGs and bio engineer consumables. well I think PSGs don't count because you don't have enough points to cap energy and recharge anyway
Click to expand...
Actaully it has been shown that, so far, it impacts those. We do not know what else such as prices, resource buyers sellers, other professions. Heck just the impact on BE's is enought to make you pause. That profession is hard enough imo.
 
Tyr said:
Actaully it has been shown that, so far, it impacts those. We do not know what else such as prices, resource buyers sellers, other professions. Heck just the impact on BE's is enought to make you pause. That profession is hard enough imo.
Click to expand...
Being against this just on speculation does not help your cause
 
Zoso said:
Being against this just on speculation does not help your cause
Click to expand...
Being for it based on guessing isn't helping you either. I am not for or against I just want to see some data and discussion about it first. Unintended consequences cause a lot of problems and it is harder to undo a mess than just not make it in the first place. If the initial idea/suggestion is the best then good. But it seems already that it could/should be modified or maybe a different approach could solve the underlying request. I hesitate to call it a problem yet.
 
Tyr said:
Example of the Alum example listed

Grr anyway the
Alum DR 999 1/27/23
Alum CR 994 5/1/24
Alum HR 995 9/22/22
Alum UT 1000 4/18/22
Alum SR 987 6/21/24
Alum CD 1000 6/28/22
Click to expand...
you need 4 different resources with 2 or more 960 stats on the same resource is why saying just wait till it spawns is ridiculous
 
Tyr said:
Being for it based on guessing isn't helping you either. I am not for or against I just want to see some data and discussion about it first. Unintended consequences cause a lot of problems and it is harder to undo a mess than just not make it in the first place. If the initial idea/suggestion is the best then good. But it seems already that it could/should be modified or maybe a different approach could solve the underlying request. I hesitate to call it a problem yet.
Click to expand...
you're the one saying the changes will be bad so it's on you to show how they will be bad
 
Zoso said:
you're the one saying the changes will be bad so it's on you to show how they will be bad
Click to expand...
Actually you have it backwards there. And I didn't say it was bad or good. Comprehesion please. (Burden of proof fallacy)
 
Zoso said:
you need 4 different resources with 2 or more 960 stats on the same resource is why saying just wait till it spawns is ridiculous
Click to expand...
So that sounds more like a schematic issue along with the "I don't wanna wait, I want my binky now"
 
Zoso said:
it's been shown other than ship parts this would only affect PSGs and bio engineer consumables. well I think PSGs don't count because you don't have enough points to cap energy and recharge anyway
Click to expand...
This is false, I'm sorry to say, but that's a very narrow view of the thousands of schematics out there. I gave an example of the bioengineering consumbles, but the all the BE hardware is also subject to this.
A quick scan of a handful of schematics that are also affected are, but not limited to:
  • Battle armor segment (not advanced) - uses aluminum with a focus on SR. Phrik had the best SR at 900 until Perovskitic alum came along
  • Recon armor segment (not advanced) - uses copper with a focus on SR. Polysteel was best at 800, but CB copper came along
  • Micro sensor suite - uses steel with a focus on CD. Duralloy steel was best with 650, but now impossible to cap without JTL steel
  • Advanced micro sensor suite - same as above
  • Disruptor rifle (plus many other weaponsmith final combines) - uses copper with focus on SR
  • Droid armor module 3 - uses steel with focus on CD
  • Droid item storage 6 - same as above
This list goes on, but hopefully you get the point. It's not just shipwrights and a few 1-off schematics. The impact is far larger than you think
 
I'm not saying that there isn't an issue with the resource caps being different from Live. It does seem a bit weird, and we don't have any idea why the person who changed them took that action. It would be helpful to know the reason.

What we have seen on Resto are multiple instances of small changes having outsized and unexpected consequences on seemingly unrelated systems in this game. Until we have a more clear and detailed picture of how this would affect other schematics across all crafting professions, I am going to have to vote no.
 
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jt26077 said:
This is false, I'm sorry to say, but that's a very narrow view of the thousands of schematics out there. I gave an example of the bioengineering consumbles, but the all the BE hardware is also subject to this.
A quick scan of a handful of schematics that are also affected are, but not limited to:
  • Battle armor segment (not advanced) - uses aluminum with a focus on SR. Phrik had the best SR at 900 until Perovskitic alum came along
  • Recon armor segment (not advanced) - uses copper with a focus on SR. Polysteel was best at 800, but CB copper came along
  • Micro sensor suite - uses steel with a focus on CD. Duralloy steel was best with 650, but now impossible to cap without JTL steel
  • Advanced micro sensor suite - same as above
  • Disruptor rifle (plus many other weaponsmith final combines) - uses copper with focus on SR
  • Droid armor module 3 - uses steel with focus on CD
  • Droid item storage 6 - same as above
This list goes on, but hopefully you get the point. It's not just shipwrights and a few 1-off schematics. The impact is far larger than you think
Click to expand...
so both the armors you list can be capped so they are a non issue. Are droids more powerful than pets? I don't see an issue there. I'd love a 30 storage mouse droid. A handful of weapons get slightly better what's the issue with that?
 
Zoso said:
so both the armors you list can be capped so they are a non issue. Are droids more powerful than pets? I don't see an issue there. I'd love a 30 storage mouse droid. A handful of weapons get slightly better what's the issue with that?
Click to expand...
1722045077134.png


A quick scan of a handful of schematics that are also affected are, but not limited to:
 
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Zoso said:
so both the armors you list can be capped so they are a non issue. Are droids more powerful than pets? I don't see an issue there. I'd love a 30 storage mouse droid. A handful of weapons get slightly better what's the issue with that?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I see the point in this statement. Being dismissive doesn't make the facts less true.
Generally speaking, droids aren't more powerful than pets, but not everyone is a Master CH. Anyone can field a droid though.
Just about everything in the game can be capped with the right resources, even the shipwright schematics. That's not the point I'm making here. What I'm saying is that the proposed change would have wide-sweeping implications across the entire game, and the devs need to take all that into consideration before committing to a decision.
 
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