Mass PvP should be prioritized over BH tefs

Mass PvP should be prioritized over BH tefs
This idea/suggestion is Open. You can respond to ask questions or discuss the idea and either vote it up or down if you believe it should or should not be implemented, respectively. Popular suggestions and ideas will be considered by the development team to become reality in-game.
This prefix is applied by a Galactic Senator when they are officially sponsoring a post for consideration by the Development Team.

ShadowNova82

Proposal
- Change how the BH/Jedi tef works to prevent intentional culling during mass PvP.

- Specifically: if a Jedi is flagged SF prior to the initiation of a bh tef, it should not prevent the Jedi from receiving support from other flagged players. However, if a BH initiates the tef while the Jedi is on leave or combatant, the Jedi should be unable to /pvp to avoid abusing/cheesing the system.
Justification
- Currently, even while engaged in mass PvP a Jedi ceases being able to receive any kind of support from other SF flagged players once a BH initiates a tef.

- During mass PvP players from both factions are swapping to a BH character (or leaving on their active BH), pulling a SF Jedi’s mission, and then using this mechanic to intentionally cull Jedi out of a fight rather than countering it organically in the spirit of mass PvP.
Motivation
- Jedi should have a place in mass PvP that isn’t circumvented by players using the tef system to cheese a kill for ghosting.
Ultimately Jedi will still have to contend with visibility and mass reporting by opposing players if present for an extended period of PvP. This will result in an accelerated timeframe for being Vadered while also being the likely focus of the opposing factions players.

The resto specific mechanics are more than enough to limit both the time and number of Jedi that are able to be present before being forced to leave due to Inquisitors and Vader. The BH tef as it currently exists is an unnecessary for balance and being used in a manner that is not keeping with the spirit of the type of PvP that is actively occurring.
 
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If normies don't get locked out while SF then Jedi shouldn't either, we're just making it hard for the sake of it. Put normies back on the BH tef while SF or just let people help jedi while they're flagged up.

As it stands right now BH players if they know someone is flagging SF on jedi they will intentionally go to the boards to grab the bounty so no one can heal the jedi in the fights even if they have no intention of "chasing the target"
 
I am on the fence about this, though i am leaning towards support to be honest, despite the strong opposition.

I think basically the argument here is "jedi should be hiding" vs "BHs are just using this to pick up easy kills" which i think both have merit. Unfortunately i think most of the time the BH system is used in GCW to get easy/free kills and cheese jedi out of their bounty rather than actually having meaningful content and fights come from the vis system.

In all honesty i think changing this so that the jedi cant be singled out in this way would encourage more jedi to appear in GCW which i dont think is a bad thing. We have been making changes to jedi with the larger fights in mind so i dont see why they shouldnt be encouraged to participate.

Im going to sponsor this, the community clearly has some feelings so we should take that into account but we can also discuss this at the other level too and weigh up the merits etc. At least with a sponsor the conversation can continue properly. Hopefully no one tells me im a bad BH or Jedi for this take and if you do, im not listening anyway <3
 
Rheasconstruct said:
I am on the fence about this, though i am leaning towards support to be honest, despite the strong opposition.

I think basically the argument here is "jedi should be hiding" vs "BHs are just using this to pick up easy kills" which i think both have merit. Unfortunately i think most of the time the BH system is used in GCW to get easy/free kills and cheese jedi out of their bounty rather than actually having meaningful content and fights come from the vis system.

In all honesty i think changing this so that the jedi cant be singled out in this way would encourage more jedi to appear in GCW which i dont think is a bad thing. We have been making changes to jedi with the larger fights in mind so i dont see why they shouldnt be encouraged to participate.

Im going to sponsor this, the community clearly has some feelings so we should take that into account but we can also discuss this at the other level too and weigh up the merits etc. At least with a sponsor the conversation can continue properly. Hopefully no one tells me im a bad BH or Jedi for this take and if you do, im not listening anyway <3
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Again those that are "seen" helping a Jedi are now sympathizers and should go on the boards along with the Jedi. Support is fine to a point but GTEF was already tested and flushed thank goodness. They should not be seen amd especially in large numbers but if they are a penalty needs added or what is the point.
 
Tyr said:
Again those that are "seen" helping a Jedi are now sympathizers and should go on the boards along with the Jedi. Support is fine to a point but GTEF was already tested and flushed thank goodness. They should not be seen amd especially in large numbers but if they are a penalty needs added or what is the point.
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Dont have a massive issue with that resolution either but i dont think jedi should be getting culled in the middle of GCW fights to be honest. Again, i understand the "should not be seen" argument but i dont think it always needs to impact on gameplay as much as this. The BH system is working fine as is at the moment, allowing jedi to not get BHed in GCW isnt going to radically change that but it may mean we see some more jedi (that you can report for vader etc) participating in GCW. Might also make some of those jedi more visible too in the context of the Vis system and we may see more of them ending up on the boards which is good everyone :)
 
Rheasconstruct said:
Dont have a massive issue with that resolution either but i dont think jedi should be getting culled in the middle of GCW fights to be honest. Again, i understand the "should not be seen" argument but i dont think it always needs to impact on gameplay as much as this. The BH system is working fine as is at the moment, allowing jedi to not get BHed in GCW isnt going to radically change that but it may mean we see some more jedi (that you can report for vader etc) participating in GCW. Might also make some of those jedi more visible too in the context of the Vis system and we may see more of them ending up on the boards which is good everyone :)
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Yes but if they can be helped in "mass pvp" that means you have tossed out why that can't be helped in any form of pvp. Also will it become the team with the most Jedi win scenario? I have no issue IF they put a penalty on it or again what is the point? It makes zero sense to say well one form of pvp is acceptable to help but not other forms. I also question whether you will see more Jedi in any serious numbers. I do agree the BH tef needs fixing but still a down vote for now. (Keep resto unique please with keeping Jedi hidden)
 
Got no issue either way. Love the idea of the sympathizers being on the board as well.

My concern is can a Jedi then abuse this and got SF when being hunted just to get healed? Not sure that’s a real big issue but worth discussing.

For what it’s worth there is SW canon for locking them out. Mace Windu vs Jango Fett. We see Jango able to locked Mace out of the larger scale PVP going on around them.
 
Rheasconstruct said:
Dont have a massive issue with that resolution either but i dont think jedi should be getting culled in the middle of GCW fights to be honest. Again, i understand the "should not be seen" argument but i dont think it always needs to impact on gameplay as much as this. The BH system is working fine as is at the moment, allowing jedi to not get BHed in GCW isnt going to radically change that but it may mean we see some more jedi (that you can report for vader etc) participating in GCW. Might also make some of those jedi more visible too in the context of the Vis system and we may see more of them ending up on the boards which is good everyone :)
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I think the problem would become more Jedi just running around flagged to avoid a BH tef
 
Ehh...Nids - sounds easy but but then your hunt would depend on others being online to respond to your pings about a jedi going SF for help. I know we all have times where there is no response on your faction side.

I think this could work BUT don't let the jedi flag /pvp after combat is broken because breaking combat is so easy (stasis, cloaking, fr3, etc.) and then it will be abused. It should be time-based after combat breaks or after the tef with the bh falls off which probably meant the jedi could have escaped anyways. I don't know if we have these mechanics available to accomplish this?

If jedi wasn't SF already when the hunt started, don't make it easy to flag up.
If jedi was SF already, don't tef the bounty out of the existing gcw fight.

-Snailey -
2 time Community BH of the year award winner
 
LordPhoenix said:
Ehh...Nids - sounds easy but but then your hunt would depend on others being online to respond to your pings about a jedi going SF for help. I know we all have times where there is no response on your faction side.

I think this could work BUT don't let the jedi flag /pvp after combat is broken because breaking combat is so easy (stasis, cloaking, fr3, etc.) and then it will be abused. It should be time-based after combat breaks or after the tef with the bh falls off which probably meant the jedi could have escaped anyways. I don't know if we have these mechanics available to accomplish this?

If jedi wasn't SF already when the hunt started, don't make it easy to flag up.
If jedi was SF already, don't tef the bounty out of the existing gcw fight.

-Snailey -
2 time Community BH of the year award winner
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This is a good compromise honestly and kinda solves all the sticky situations. I guess someone will make the argument they'll just fr3 around until the bh tef drops and then flag but at that point they might as well just leave and go ranch at something so what does it matter.
 
Nidums said:
You know the BH players could also just call people to flag SF if the jedi goes SF for help...?
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This is not very practical- EU time there are limited imperial pvp players and lots of rebel players. NA there are lots of imperial players and limited rebel players.

Making it so jedi could flag mid fight with BH would mean you could be effectively invincible depending which time zone you were in.

Snailey suggestion is good - if you are already flagged you cant be tef'd and if already tef'd you can't flag.
 
Jedi vs. GCW vs. BH - there is no 3 way balance on this one.

This was also seen during what I've done in Pre-CU PVP fights - with pretty much exactly the same scenario.

Jedis were involved in GCW PVP, and a BH comes along, BH TEF's out the Jedi - which now is "unfairly" separated from the GCW fight - exactly how OP describes the issue.

Solution they made, was GTEF, so if a BH was attacking a SF Jedi that was GCW TEF'ed, the entire group the Jedi was in would suddenly be able to target the BH and assist the Jedi on killing the BH - which shifted the narrative in strong favor of the Jedi suddenly.
I know GTEF is not entirely what i suggested, but it ain't super far off either, as the Jedi can suddenly have an army of pocket healers available constantly keeping the Jedi topped up while fighting the BH.

Lore wise, currently system is what makes the most sense, Jedi's are rare species, a galactic target by the Emperor, and should be mindful about their surroundings - can and is it abused to alter PVP yes.. But the alternative ain't much better in my opinion.
 
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If you don't want to do the those that are "seen" helping a Jedi are now sympathizers and should go on the boards along with the Jedi you can do something along the lines of Jedi should not be seen SF at all so you make a vis penalty for SF and add a plus for how many on the other side see him along with the up tp 4 other Jedi penalty. Something like you get 500 vis for each SF opponent (plus other Jedi) and oh my if it gets to high Vader is notified a nest fo Jedi scum have been found and poof he appears all Jedi die.

Jedi are supposed to stay hidden except for places like the ranch and the sanctum. Fix the BH tef issue and let players make a choice about SF or not. I think both ideas should be combined but that is just me. Help a Jedi go on the boards would work.
 
"Jedi needs to stay hidden" gets spoken about a lot with every topic and like yea its cool because its the image of jedi on this server but at some point we have to actually think about whats fun. Jedi already get a lot of vis fast in non small scale pvp fights and can't maintain being out for long.

I just don't think we need to punish them anymore on top of that. Snaileys solution is honestly just the best
 
Nidums said:
"Jedi needs to stay hidden" gets spoken about a lot with every topic and like yea its cool because its the image of jedi on this server but at some point we have to actually think about whats fun. Jedi already get a lot of vis fast in non small scale pvp fights and can't maintain being out for long.

I just don't think we need to punish them anymore on top of that. Snaileys solution is honestly just the bes
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I just wonder how this will feel and play out once Knight and higher gets here and we have even more powerful Jedi. I stand by the those that are "seen" helping a Jedi are now sympathizers and should go on the boards along with the Jedi.
 
I mean sure but people who typically take part in GCW end up on the boards anyway because you get 1k for every db
 
I just don't understand why people are backing the suggestion that people "helping" a Jedi go on boards with them. Unless you mean it's like a system to penalize people for being seen with Jedi in PvE? Because, as Nids said, every person participating in GCW is already on the boards within a fight or two, depending on the scale.

It feels like there are people who don't even participate in PvP in general attempting to weigh in and offer something that is effectively just an additional boost to the PvP bounties people will already accrue through the course of PvPing, which will.. just go to make more credits in circulation?
 
Nidums said:
You know the BH players could also just call people to flag SF if the jedi goes SF for help...?
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This is assuming you got a bunch of friends that like to PVP. BH is a solo thing which is why I do that instead of mass PvP. None of my buddies want to PvP.

This simply isn’t a real option for everyone.
nitan said:
Jedi vs. GCW vs. BH - there is no 3 way balance on this one.

This was also seen during what I've done in Pre-CU PVP fights - with pretty much exactly the same scenario.

Jedis were involved in GCW PVP, and a BH comes along, BH TEF's out the Jedi - which now is "unfairly" separated from the GCW fight - exactly how OP describes the issue.

Solution they made, was GTEF, so if a BH was attacking a SF Jedi that was GCW TEF'ed, the entire group the Jedi was in would suddenly be able to target the BH and assist the Jedi on killing the BH - which shifted the narrative in strong favor of the Jedi suddenly.
I know GTEF is not entirely what i suggested, but it ain't super far off either, as the Jedi can suddenly have an army of pocket healers available constantly keeping the Jedi topped up while fighting the BH.

Lore wise, currently system is what makes the most sense, Jedi's are rare species, a galactic target by the Emperor, and should be mindful about their surroundings - can and is it abused to alter PVP yes.. But the alternative ain't much better in my opinion.
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Lore wise we seen Jango Fett tef Mace Windu out of a large scale battle lol.


I do wonder how much of an issue this is though. How many people run off to a terminal to try and find the right mission to pull the Jedi out of the PvP fight? Likewise how many of those Jedi need healing help to take out a single BH? Seems if you’re a Jedi that PVPs you will be fine taking out a loan BH and returning to help your friends.
 
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