Re-Reverse Engineering for space parts

This tool has a few benefits. For the individual pilot this has the clear advantage of being able to incrementally improve their ship without the buyers remorse of shortly after an RE is completed then finding a better stat.

There are countless warehouses across the galaxy filled with great stat parts and parts that are deemed "too good" to find stats to match with them. This let's those parts be able to fly and not sit forever unused. (More people flying and more good RE'd parts in circulation is good for the game)

I believe this tool would actually Increase ship part demand amongst players because there would be immediate use cases if a better stat part comes to the market. It would no longer be a case where someone sees nice part but would not otherwise have the time or will to start a whole new project. However, if they could immediately upgrade their ship that player is now another potential buyer in the market.

For shipwrights, I think added incentive could be large Prestige allotments for completing a new RE with this tool. The prestige amount scaling with Cert Level × Avg Part stat Quality %.

Maxal said:

Both parts would be post RE, hence already have the bonus and not getting another bonus.
As the PV states, the SW would do the work. It would be a limited use schematic to make the process costly to the end user. We will have to come up with the resources cost to the SW to make a profit down the road, but will definitely be involved.

You just described one of the benefits of this. If I, or anyone else, did that, where is the unfair advantage? Would it make it an advantage to pvp with the heavier engine for months? Would there be some unfair advantage to pve like gaining credits or loot faster?

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Oh I did misunderstand
Currently, nearly every SW does RE for free. So your purpose in selling a limited use schem is that SW will charge for this service?

I like the idea. It's similar to the Vehicle Part RE system, where you can gradually improve your items with the trade-off that you lose the slightly weaker stat in the process.

For a casual spacer, this would have a lot of benefits because it gives you a way to "start somewhere." If you get lucky and find a good part, but you're not heavily invested in the space game and don't want to grind hundreds of hours to complete the rest of the RE project with similarly rare components, you can at least put the item to use. More importantly, you can do so knowing that you'll be able to upgrade it later.

That's much better than letting an item sit unused for weeks, months, or even years. Right now, if you decide to use it, you're often told, "That was dumb. I would only combine that with an item below X mass."

Personally, I'd much rather improve my items over time, even if that means I initially spent credits on a "good enough" mass item and later replaced it with a better one. Progressive upgrades make every step feel worthwhile instead of forcing players to wait indefinitely for the perfect component before they can engage with the system.

Maxal said:

I honestly hadn't put a lot of thought into shipwrights profiting. I could see the single use schematics being like the borstel/ elite incom II, where SW buy them off of players who do the activities that give station tokens. Then they would charge to do the RE-RE. There will be a market of some size for that I believe. It's worth it to pay credits rather than grind it out for some players.

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If you wanna think in a different direction than "one time use schematic"... Vehicle RE has a dedicated tooll. And for each RE pass you need to ad an additional component which is crafted. For the SW RE-RE this component could be bought with station tokens, duty tokens or whatever. Just to add value to the process.

I think I agree with Smogs and Iffey's objections. This would have negative effects on the market that I don't believe are accounted for within the current proposal. It eliminates an incentive at the top percentages of parts to sell them directly, rather than hold them to incrementally improve a project. What parts do get listed within that range will see their prices rise, potentially out of the reach of the people who would otherwise purchase those parts, as availability goes down. There would need to be some situation where its not worth the cost of performing the re-RE, over the profit potential of selling the part directly, whether that's by making the required tool schematic expensive in tokens, or some other economic mechanic.

However, a renaming tool, separate from this proposed schematic, would absolutely be appreciated. Ideally one that would also allow for the changing of visual effects (hopefully for any part that has a visual component like engines or boosters, but if it must be limited to a narrow focus, blaster effects)

Every decent pilot has their own SW. Get the schem, craft themselves, RE/RE their own gear. I dont see how you can really add in to the SW market here. Unless youre buying the schems? Then re-selling them? Im lost on this part of the conversation, it feels like too many interations, and complicating it, no offense, Sav, you are much respected. I just dont see how this works in the light you are shedding on it. Its there other ideas? Its just like the other tools on the vendor currently is how I would assume it would be implemented. Unless you need experimentation and a REAL SW to craft it, and they could make additional charges or somthing like that? Also, will this be on the vendor that requires full AoA? Or factional?

I strongly support this one. Keeping track og RE jobs is a job itself, often with 500+ items you gotta juggle and some parts laying around for years. I can only see benefits in making you able to fix mistakes or correct a bad move from when you were new and didnt know you had a gem.

smogs said:

I think it's more a case of.

Normally that 18.5k would go for sale. You're not going to do another project. So there's an element of trickle down.

This is my issue with it.

That trickle down isn't going to happen.

We have all sold great stats that we could use but don't want to start another project.

So those great stats trickle down and the person below completes a project.

They in turn sell the item the project replaced.

Trickles down again.

I'll use my recent S0 as an example.

Seller had a good shield already and whilst the 3370 would post higher than they had they didn't want to start a new project, so I bought the 3370.

That allowed me to make my new one.

I sold my 42k 3250 to someone who had a 44k 3000, they then sold that to someone who was using an S8.

That was 4 people benefited from 1 part that wouldn't have happened had this tool existed 2 month ago.

That's my only worry of it.

Heck there's a W0 I have I'd love to trim the mass on and all for the tool as a concept, there's just this worry it's going g to lead to a massive hoarding of parts and destroys that whole trickle down economy.

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This goes both ways however. I cant make myself sell a best stat ever item. So for me looting a new mass would mean I would start hoarding and buying parts for an engine thats better in every single stat, taking many items off the markets. I do however see a lot of people here agreeing with your point of view, so how about a middle way of 1000 station tokens for a module that can redo one item once. That way you can farm to recover from a mistake or looting just what you needed after an RE job, but it will be rare.

Grunanca said:

This goes both ways however. I cant make myself sell a best stat ever item. So for me looting a new mass would mean I would start hoarding and buying parts for an engine thats better in every single stat, taking many items off the markets. I do however see a lot of people here agreeing with your point of view, so how about a middle way of 1000 station tokens for a module that can redo one item once. That way you can farm to recover from a mistake or looting just what you needed after an RE job, but it will be rare.

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If you just make the tool expensive enough - it will divert people from overlapping in a snap. YOu also arent going to over lap a 108 e8 TS with a 109. No one is throwing 100m+ in the trash. And even if they do, who cares what someone else does with their parts. It would be dumb though to not just make a whole new project at that point. No one will ever realistically overlap hundred million credit parts. So the infinite upwards push of a singular parts isnt going to happen in practice, once you get a part high enough, eventually once you push past end game part, youll stop wasting the stats, and start a new project. The issue this brings up is overlapping snappy with starter stuff. But thats just it, its starter stuff anyways, snap away.

I see this as an avenue to make "super" parts. Parts that far exceed any players ability to make without spending months or even years waiting to acquire the best parts for that RE session that will generate a super elite part.

Vehicles do what has been proposed, but vehicles do not effect combat in the same way ship parts do.

I feel this would make a super elite class of pilots and probably have a negative effect on new pilots who do not have the same opportunity.

I think this would open up the market a bit, which is a good thing. You would see more 90th percentile finished RE projects instead of one stat wonders.

In a similar fashion to vehicle RE, yes you can upgrade forever, but it reaches a limit where you will just start a new project and either sell your old one or put it in another vehicle/ship.

Nobody erases a 27.4 speed engine with a 27.5. They would make a second engine for the 27.5. I believe this would be the same with ship re-RE.

SagoMactow said:

I see this as an avenue to make "super" parts. Parts that far exceed any players ability to make without spending months or even years waiting to acquire the best parts for that RE session that will generate a super elite part.

Vehicles do what has been proposed, but vehicles do not effect combat in the same way ship parts do.

I feel this would make a super elite class of pilots and probably have a negative effect on new pilots who do not have the same opportunity.

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I dont understand your point. No one is going to erase a 108 e8 TS for a 109. They would start a new project, you are going to be throwing a 100m+ credit part in the trash if you do that. Did you not see the response directly addressing this? - On the contrary - new players mess up projects all the time. Because they loot a unicorn and throw it together with starter level stuff. They can then NEVER fix it. Also, I dont understand again, the thought process that a new player doesnt have the same opportunity, as anyone else? So a new player cant farm parts, like someone else? You did, you nailed the entire point of the PV on the head. Youre right, you can use your parts without waiting YEARS. How is that NOT a good thing?

Maxal said:

None of what you just typed makes any logical sense. A change that does not touch drop chance, stat ranges, or increase the bonus percentage on the RE process will make more super parts how?

Future drops of great stats will only be available to super elite pilots how?

You say it would allow players to use parts earlier without spending months or years(intended benefit). What makes you think that benefits long time players and not newer players?

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When a player can just keep upgrading the part to make it better you, will eventually create a super elite part. I say this because in your proposal there is nothing stating a limit on how many times you can keep upgrading.

This I believe will cause an unfair advantage to those people having such components.

You wrote:
1. It will allow players to fix less than desirable RE projects. We all have one or two that we wish we would have waited a little longer to get that next matching stat.

I ask, why didn't the player wait until he had all the parts before RE'iing. Part of RE'ing is showing some self control / restraint and "waiting" until you have all the parts.

This is not about getting great parts into peoples hands to use at all. Because without those stats that you want to add in "on the fly" at a later date and time ... no one would use the part because it would not be ready.

Furthermore, if you have a "great part", this proposal would provide the opportunity to make the part an even better part when you happen to come across a part with less mass, more damage, lower EPS, etc than what you already have. This will remove that part from being sold because someone used it to "upgrade" an already great part. This provides less "great" parts to potential buyers and lower level pilots.

The way it is now is like a check and balance against building a super elite part and it forces people to people to make decisions on whether to hold off the RE project or not.

SagoMactow said:

When a player can just keep upgrading the part to make it better you, will eventually create a super elite part. I say this because in your proposal there is nothing stating a limit on how many times you can keep upgrading.

This I believe will cause an unfair advantage to those people having such components.

You wrote:
1. It will allow players to fix less than desirable RE projects. We all have one or two that we wish we would have waited a little longer to get that next matching stat.

I ask, why didn't the player wait until he had all the parts before RE'iing. Part of RE'ing is showing some self control / restraint and "waiting" until you have all the parts.

This is not about getting great parts into peoples hands to use at all. Because without those stats that you want to add in "on the fly" at a later date and time ... no one would use the part because it would not be ready.

Furthermore, if you have a "great part", this proposal would provide the opportunity to make the part an even better part when you happen to come across a part with less mass, more damage, lower EPS, etc than what you already have. This will remove that part from being sold because someone used it to "upgrade" an already great part. This provides less "great" parts to potential buyers and lower level pilots.

The way it is now is like a check and balance against building a super elite part and it forces people to people to make decisions on whether to hold off the RE project or no

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This I believe will cause an unfair advantage to those people having such components.
ANYONE can get the parts. I dont see an "unfair" advantage. Everyone is on equal playing field looting parts. Im sorry youve been unlucky / dont have time to play and loot. The same can be said for LITERALLY anything. Someone with better gear, will perform better. Someone that has played since launch has more resorces than a new player. I dont understand your point, unless you dont understand space loot, Id be happy to explain.
When a player can just keep upgrading the part to make it better you, will eventually create a super elite part. I say this because in your proposal there is nothing stating a limit on how many times you can keep upgrading.
This has been addressed multiple times, several different ways - make the tool expensive is one solution, another -- a player will NOT overlap a unicorn part with another unicorn part, and if they do, they are throwing away hundreds of millions of credits; and if they do that, then whats stopping players from doing other dumb things with their parts? Like deleting their parts? Because thats what they would be doing. There are uber elite parts now, and that came with years of waiting. You will still wait years to finally get to that part level, you can just use some of the individual parts faster.
I ask, why didn't the player wait until he had all the parts before RE'iing. Part of RE'ing is showing some self control / restraint and "waiting" until you have all the parts.
You gunna ignore the fact this HURTS new players more than it helps? When they dont even know what they have? And waste a hundred million credit part?
This is not about getting great parts into peoples hands to use at all. Because without those stats that you want to add in "on the fly" at a later date and time ... no one would use the part because it would not be ready.
What? If I had a 70.4+ pitch right now I would throw it into my unicorn e6 project, and use the engine right now, and continue to search for a 71.4+ pitch. I dont know what you mean by this statement.
Furthermore, if you have a "great part", this proposal would provide the opportunity to make the part an even better part when you happen to come across a part with less mass, more damage, lower EPS, etc than what you already have. This will remove that part from being sold because someone used it to "upgrade" an already great part. This provides less "great" parts to potential buyers and lower level pilots.
Read the second bolded quote from you and my answer.
A 108 e8 TS will always be worth 100m+ If you choose to upgrade a 108 with a 108.5 TS, thats your fault for throwing the 100m part away and not selling the current project, or overriding the 100m part. Again, that would be absolutely as dumb as deleting a part when your done with it. I can tell you the vast majority will sell that 108.5 TS for 100m+ or start a new project. People arent going to override unicorns, with unicorns. It makes ZERO sense.

I feel like people are WAY overthinking this one tbh. Almost like coming up with imaginary ways for that this could be bad, just to oppose it, for the sake of opposing. Could it have a VERY small impact on elite parts? Maybe. More people would be able to bid on a part, knowing they dont have to do a massive year long project for matching stats, and could just use the part instantly. I see this as a plus, but if your a half empty type person i suppose you could fake an opposition to it.
Would it have an impact on mid level stuff? Yes, quite a huge positive, as right now people skip over mid level items, not quite worth it to make a project, too expensive and not a big enough upgrade to make a project over your starter gear. This would change that and make mid tier builds more practical, to build, maintain and acquire, while also making it a more fluid transition to better projects, via easier farming, or upgrading your mid level stuff over time as you acquire elite level stuff to override mid level stuff. Gear creeping gradually, rather than waiting months for upgrades.

SagoMactow said:

When a player can just keep upgrading the part to make it better you, will eventually create a super elite part. I say this because in your proposal there is nothing stating a limit on how many times you can keep upgrading.

This I believe will cause an unfair advantage to those people having such components.

You wrote:
1. It will allow players to fix less than desirable RE projects. We all have one or two that we wish we would have waited a little longer to get that next matching stat.

I ask, why didn't the player wait until he had all the parts before RE'iing. Part of RE'ing is showing some self control / restraint and "waiting" until you have all the parts.

This is not about getting great parts into peoples hands to use at all. Because without those stats that you want to add in "on the fly" at a later date and time ... no one would use the part because it would not be ready.

Furthermore, if you have a "great part", this proposal would provide the opportunity to make the part an even better part when you happen to come across a part with less mass, more damage, lower EPS, etc than what you already have. This will remove that part from being sold because someone used it to "upgrade" an already great part. This provides less "great" parts to potential buyers and lower level pilots.

The way it is now is like a check and balance against building a super elite part and it forces people to people to make decisions on whether to hold off the RE project or not.

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Nobody is going to overwrite stats worth hundreds of millions of credits. This will be mostly done for lower % builds.
this wont affect things the way you think it will.

I also think that any reasonable player won't upgrade a item for 50 less mass and waste millions of credits. It won't stop people from doing it but i think those cases would be very rare.
Would I use an item worth 3-5mil to make a decent component and replace it later on? yes! Would I replace a 50mil item for something that is 2% better and will cost me 65mil? Most likely not.
And I doubt that it would hurt the space economy if a few 500k-5mil items are taken off the market as they would be rather common anyways.

I still think it would be great to save "fuck ups" because people where not knowlegable about what they were doing with their components.
And it would enable people to at least use very good parts instead of hoarding them and never use them at all because the one magic component is missing.

So the best argument I see is that why would someone spend 100 million to over write a 50 million stat on a ship part. However there are people that have been playing for a long time that has hundreds of millions if not billions of credits. Obviously someone in that category would not worry about money.

Also someone brought up that making the tool very expensive would deter someone from from making a 'super elite" ship component. Maybe ..... but would a new player to R3 have the same opportunity? Or go broke buying it? Or perhaps have to wait 3 yrs while they build up the credits.

Being in IT for 30+ years we always look at the pros and cons of something we want to implement before we move forward. And if we can mitigate the concerns of management and security.

There is no doubt this could benefit me. But at what expense to the rest of the pilots just starting out. I fear it would make a HUGE gap in quality between their ship (as an Ace) compared to those that have been around for 5 years and amassed hundreds of million of credits.

Like I said, this would benefit me as well, I have a E0 with almost 110 engine speed and Y/P/R of 81, and a mass of 37K. I could RE it now and upgrade it later as it can be better. Or I can just wait and see if better parts are looted or come up for sale.

The thought of just "upgrading" a stat is very appealing. I am just not so sure this is something we have to have and what other issues will it cause that involve newer players.